Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this politician serious?

by Gnostic Bishop 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot

    @ LUHE: "I don't think he had in mind stonings and doing f*ck all on the Sabbath, somehow ... "

    There are different kinds of Christian Nationalists with different opinions on Old Testament law.

    Christian Nationalists, which every Republican seems to be, do not believe in bringing back all O.T. law, just the ones that they pick and choose. There are in this nation 10s of millions of people with this mentality.

    Reconstructionists, who refer themselves as Theonomists (God's law.) are the ones who state that all O.T. civil law should be followed exactly as they are. Some of them even go so far as to say that capital punishment should be by stoning instead of lethal injection or the gas chamber. Below is a sampling of their beliefs: 

    Those who are obedient to His commands will rule the world, reconstructing it for His glory in terms of His laws. Psalm 2 shows God laughing and sneering at the pitiful attempts of the wicked to fight against and overthrow His Kingdom. He has already given His Son "all authority in heaven and earth," and the King is with His Church until the end of the age (Matt. 23:18-20)! Is it possible that the King will be defeated? He has, in fact, warned all earthly rulers to submit to His government, or perish (Ps. 2:10-12). And the same is true of His Church. The nation that will not serve us will perish (Isa. 60:12); all the peoples of the earth will be subdued under our feet (Ps. 47:1-3)--promises made originally to Israel, but now to be fulfilled in the New Israel, the Church. 

    David Chilton, The Days of Vengeance: An Exposition of the Book of Revelation (Ft. Worth, TX: Dominion Press, 1984), p. 117.

    So let us be blunt about it: we must use the doctrine of religious liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political, and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God. Murder, abortion, and pornography will be illegal. God’s law will be enforced. It will take time. A minority religion cannot do this. Theocracy must flow from the hearts of a majority of citizens, just as compulsory education came only after most people had their children in schools of some sort. But religious anarchy, like “democratic freedom” in ancient Greece, is a temporary phenomenon; it lasts only as long as no single group gets sufficient power and accepted authority to abandon the principle. Religious anarchy, as a long-term legal framework for organizing a society, is as mythical as neutrality is. Both views assume that the institutions of civil government can create and enforce neutral law. They are cousins, and people believe in them only temporarily, until they make up their minds concerning which God they will serve.

    Gary North, "The Intellectual Schizophrenia of the New Christian Right" in Christianity and Civilization: The Failure of the American Baptist Culture, No. 1 (Spring, 1982), p. 25

    The bible permits slavery. This statement will come as a shock to most people. The laws in the Bible concerning slavery have very seldom been studied, much less preached upon. But the biblical laws concerning slavery are among the most beneficent in all the Bible. ...

    David Chilton, Productive Christians in an Age of Guilt Manipulators (Tyler, TX: Institute for Christian Economics, 1981), pp. 61-62.


    Biblical law sanctions capital punishments in the forms of the sword, burning, and stoning (and possibly hanging, as noted in chapter 13). With the sword and hanging not considered nearly as barbaric and primitive as burning and stoning by today’s humanistic standards, there is no pressing need to currently defend these forms of punishment. We will briefly defend burning carried out biblically, and then turn our efforts to defending stoning carried out biblically. At the outset, though, we must note that “the Bible does limit the gruesomeness of capital punishment. Deuteronomy 21:23 says that a body was not to remain hanging overnight. There was not to be a morbid delight in death even if it was legal. 

    It is amazing how many consider burning to be too harsh an execution. Every single sin—no matter how small we think it is—deserves eternal burning. And violating God’s civil code is a sin. Thus execution by temporal burning for violating God’s law (insofar as it relates to an offense the state is biblically authorized to punish in this way) is actually extremely lenient compared to what the sin truly deserves.

    Steve C. Halbrook, God is Just: A Defense of the Old Testament Civil Laws – Second Edition. PDF Page 255, Chapter 23: Old Testament Capital Punishment Methods. (Registration required)

    There are hundreds of thousands Theonomists in the U.S. but in spite of their small number they have influence amongst Republicans such as Michelle Bachman who was mentored by John Eidsmoe who himself was one of the original apostles of their founder, Rousas Rushdoony.

  • LoveUniHateExams

    Christian Nationalists blah, blah, blah ...

    Reconstructionists blah, blah, blah ...

    The OP was talking about British MP and UKIP leader Nigel Farage. This has NOTHING to do with American religious nuts.

    I've never heard Nige talk about the death penalty or God's law in the OT. He usually drones on about the EU, immigration or Islam.  

  • Clambake

    Why come every time someone leaves the WTS they become some Michael Moore, Richard Dawkins quoting pussy liberal.

    I think Judaeo Christian values make us better.

    The United States isn’t the moral equal of Somalia.

    I don’t think what happened in the middle ages matters anymore.

    Communism and Islam suck. Secular humanism will not be the moral compass that Christianity is in the future.

  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot


    "The OP was talking about British MP and UKIP leader Nigel Farage. This has NOTHING to do with American religious nuts."

    The OPs title for this thread is: "Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this politician serious?" His question at the end of his post is: "Would you [British only?] promote Judeo-Christian culture and values?"

    So I think my commentaries about Biblical values is relevant and the fact that many in the US are prone to adopt them is relevant unless you believe that this discussion should be limited only to the to the British.

    Insertion above is mine. 

  • cofty
    Communism and Islam suck. - Clambake

    So do all ideologies - including christianity.

    By the way I am no liberal pussy. Read Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris. 

  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot

    @ Clambake: 

    "I think Judaeo Christian values make us better." 

    Do you think that Judaic values of the Old Testament are appropriate for any nation? Would you execute a man for gathering firewood on the Sabbath? Execute women who weren't virgin during her wedding night? Force the victim of rape to marry her rapist? These are Hebrew - that is Judaic values.

    "The United States isn’t the moral equal of Somalia."

    Ah yes, the old only Christians are moral argument. Gandhi wasn't. You can find multitudes who are examples for many Christians to follow.

    "I don’t think what happened in the middle ages matters anymore."

    What's happening now with Dominionists does affect us.  

    "Communism and Islam suck. Secular humanism will not be the moral compass that Christianity is in the future."

    Communism is dead even in China which is communistic in name only. As for Islam, it is a throwback to the Old Testament; you know ancient Judaic values. 

  • LoveUniHateExams

    Village Idiot - obviously, the question wasn't only directed to British posters. The politician in the OP is British, however, and I think an acknowledgement should be made of the difference between the beliefs of Nigel Farage and the beliefs of US religious nuts. I think there may be a disconnect between your commentaries about Biblical values and the centre-right beliefs of Mr Farage.


  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot

    @ LUHE:

    Mr. Farage, who sounds somewhat liberal to me compared to others here in the US,  might not compare to the majority of Christian Nationalists here in the States but my point is that Dominionism is a threat everywhere in the civilized world and their concept of Judeo-Christian values threaten more than just one country. 

    They have control of Uganda and are the authors of the "Kill the gays law".


  • LoveUniHateExams

    Mr. Farage, who sounds somewhat liberal - this obviously depends on the political views of the observer. To tree-hugging Guardian readers over here in England, Farage is a fascist.

    Dominionism may be a threat in the US. Perhaps Gnostic Bishop should have put a youtube clip of some 'Merican religious nut sounding off.

    I'd like to say at this point that the authors of the 'kill the gays law' have nothing to do with Farage.  

  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot

    @LUHE: "I'd like to say at this point that the authors of the 'kill the gays law' have nothing to do with Farage."

    I know. I never meant to intend that. 

    As for his 'Liberalism' here in the states Republicans have gotten so radical that he would look like a "Rino' - Republican in name only". 

    One thing he said that I respect, he wanted to encompass the (non terrorist) Muslim community and to help their alienated youth. No Republican would be caught dead saying that. They want the abolition of all Mosques and even make claims that Obama is a crypto-Muslim.

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