Oh no! What if they're right?

by OldSoul 7 Replies latest jw friends

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  OldSoul

  If I am right, I expect to live a full human life, complete with miseries and delights, and then die.

  If Jehovah's Witnesses are right, I expect to live a full human life, complete with miseries and delights, and then die.

  ... on the other hand ...

  If I am right, Jehovah's Witnesses will live a human life of intense misery and guilt punctuated by pretended delight over the routine receipt of more guilt, and then die.

  If Jehovah's Witnesses are right, they will get to live forever with a lot of other guilt-ridden people pretending to be delighted.

  ... so ...

  Either way, my expectation will be realized. The only potential for a wasted life is as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. The same principle applies to any high-control cult.

  Respectfully,
  OldSoul
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  Markfromcali

  What if we don't look at it in terms of who is right, but just what is true? Not what might be, but right now. Not living in an idea about the future, but life as it is.
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  skyman

  My wife says the samething she has peace of mind that she will live a good life and what happens will happen. She know that many of the BORG are not living a good life because they are allway judging others and worried they will not make it.
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  OldSoul

  What if we don't look at it in terms of who is right, but just what is true? Not what might be, but right now. Not living in an idea about the future, but life as it is.

  Well, if we did that all investigation would cease, all imagination would be considered futile, all improvement or advancement would be accidental. The field of theoretical physics is nothing more than an exploration of the future possible, based on an in-depth analysis of the present probable. Would you say goodbye to that, as well?

  You can carry anything too far. Before you can live what is true, you must know what is true. We don't.

  How can you look at "what is true" without including a determination of whether it is true? I think you stated a logical paradox.

  Respectfully,
  OldSoul
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  Markfromcali

  Actually all I was saying is to investigate without framing it in terms of who is right, if you want to get past that identity it is probably useful to look at things without viewing it in those terms. In the case of something like a high control religion that state of mind is something that is good to be aware of.

  Not living in an idea is not the same as not considering those ideas at all, in the case of apocalyptic religions we can see how that affects one's quality of life. Again, obviously when you investigate from the perspective of a limited framework you will have limited results. The JW perspective is only one limited view, from a psychological perspective it is simply "my" perspective. This is why I made the point about who is right, as it refers to this state of mind. (which is not to imply you are coming from that state of mind, though the use of language refers to that) I think there is a place for addressing the JW view directly, but on the other hand there is much to be said for simply opening up that view, and particularly if one opens up from "my" view, in this case the JW view, prompting one to be on the way to freedom from that identity.
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  OldSoul

  I think I understand what you mean, Mark. The problem with codified religion is not that they investigate spirituality but that they systematize spirituality.

  I see that as a problem with Science as well. We have placed barriers up that keep us from discovering beyond certain horizons because of codified scientific beliefs. I like the approach you suggest, discover and build on the discoveries of others without ruling on the validity of the discovery of another. But, unfortunately, we keep devising conceits that limit us until another limiting conceit forces the old one into the realm of old wive's tale. I have hopes this will one day end.

  Respectfully,
  OldSoul
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  Markfromcali

  If only we can have that child like spirit of wonder and discovery, it would be much more enjoyable too. Nothing to hang on to, but not pushing anything away.

  I love this song, Dive Right In:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/27/12364/87.ashx
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  rebel8

  That is a very important point to make with those disillusioned and considering leaving the borg. This is the very reasoning I had when I decided to leave: Even if they're right, I don't want to live a depressing life and worship a mean God. I'd rather die.