Disfellowship?????????????????????

tattoogrl333

Today's study topic included disfellowship. I'm a little confused I was told that the only way you can be disfellowshipped was if you did something you knew went agains Jehovah and would not repent for it. But the only person you can repent to is Jehovah......... Then I was told that the elders can however "keep the flock pure" b/c if jehovah is not happy with the congregation he can take his Holy Spirit away.

So I'm confused when do the elders get to step in and decide you are a threat to the congregation? And is it true that if you repent they can't disfellowship you?

reagan_oconnor

The problem with the elder arrangement is that they are imperfect men who claim to have God's spirit in making the decision of your personal repentance.

As you said, my dear, no one but God can determine your heart condition. And as far as the elders keeping the congregation "clean"... maybe they should review Luke 6:39-42 before trying to pass judgement against others in their determination of repentance.

Reagan

I am the master of my fate/I am the captain of my soul.

Billygoat

Tattoogirl,

So good to hear you asking questions!

How many times a day do you sin? How many times when you sin, you realize you are sinning? These are questions I rarely asked myself as a JW. But ask I did once I was disfellowshipped!

When I was 19, I committed a sin that nobody in my congregation would ever find out about. But it ate at my conscience so badly that I went directly to the elders about it the VERY NEXT DAY! My heart hurt, my mind felt like ton of bricks, my very being was wanting to turn back time. When I went to the elders, I was in tears. I could barely talk. I knew I had sinned and wanted forgiveness for it. They stepped in because I asked them to help me. I wanted them to show me how to turn away from this 'sin' in my life.

Within 30 minutes of the initial meeting, a decision had been made about me. I was to be disfellowshipped. I had committed sin and didn't "look repentant enough". WHAT???? I was stunned. If I wasn't repentant WHY would I have gone to the elders in the first place? I would have tried to hide it! Nobody knew - nobody would know if I had just kept my mouth shut!

The problem with the way the process is constructed is that MEN are utilizing the process. Abusing it is more like it! So to answer your last question anyway...YES! You can be disfellowshipped EVEN IF you are repentant. The ELDERS decide when to step in and how to keep the congregation clean. They will make the decision based on what they claim is "direction from the Holy Spirit", but it is a man-made decision none-the-less. Which can never be perfect.

Take it from my experience and others you'll hear on this board. TURN AND RUN! The JW's say a lot of great things, but it all changes when you become one.

Billygoat

RunningMan

When can the elders disfellowship you?

Technically, any time they want. The theory is that there is no sin
for which you are automatically disfellowshipped. It is your unrepentant
attitude which gets you booted.

In practice, though, there are several things which constitute
automatic disfellowshipment. This includes, but is not limited to,
joining the military, accepting blood, etc.

The actual items listed in the Bible, such as fornication, can usually
be repented over, and disfellowshipping avoided.

The worst thing that you can do is to disagree with the "Faithful
and Discreet Slave". This makes you an apostate, and even worse,
and "evil slave".

So, in a nutshell, the elders can do whatever the hell they want for
just about any reason that they want. But if you remain submissive
and agreeable, and stay out of their way, they will not call out the
dogs.

tattoogrl333

Billy,

I thought you were supposed to repent with God not with the elders? That i what I was told and I believe there i a scripture to that effect I will have to look it up again. Why would someone go to the elders if they only had to go to God. That i what I am getting at what about the elders makes one feel that the only way the guilt will go away is to confess to them? Do they posess the Jedi mind power? :)

GodRules

I am not sure if you are sincere when asking this question. If you are confused, why didn't you tell that to the sister conducting the bible study. Another thing is: why do you post every single thing the sister explains to you? Are you looking for the truth or what sounds good? You are asking the point of view of those that are enemies of Jehovah's Witnesses and that many are disfellowshipped. So, what do you think the answer is going to be?

Of course they are going to say that disfellowshipping is unfair, what else are they going to say? That in itself shows they are unrepentant. The sister explained it to you correctly, if the person shows repentance, then he/she will not be disfellowshipped. If you truly want to know what a person thinks of the disfellowshipping process, attend a meeting in the Kingdom Hall and tell the sister you would like to speak with a brother or sister that has been disfellowshipped in the past and now is reinstated. They will give you the correct point of view because they are not enemies of Jehovah, but servants that accepted his discipline and consequences for their actions.

P.S. Regarding your question about when the elders step in if you are a threat to the congregation: Biblically, one of the responsibility of shepheards are to keep the congregation clean, so if someone is making a practice of gross sin and does is not showing repentence (because they keep practicing the sin) then the elders should disfellowship that person. Oh some here will tell you that this is unfair because no one will talk to them, that they will lose their family, but think about this: obviously they didn't give a damn about their friends or family when they decided to make a practice of the sin.

Billygoat

Tattoogirl,

In the JW religion, if you do NOT confess sins to an Elder and they find out about it later, you will be in that much more trouble. They say you only have to confess to God, but when/if they find out, they will bring you before a judicial committee. My point being, they will say certains things DIFFERENTLY once they've hooked you.

As for GodRules comment: "Of course they are going to say that disfellowshipping is unfair, what else are they going to say? That in itself shows they are unrepentant." Does this statement mean that ALL men in judicial committees are dealing with the situation perfectly? Does this statement mean that ALL dfed people have been processed judiciously? Jesus Christ claimed he was innocent of wrongdoing - does that AUTOMATICALLY make him guilty??? Is there not one wrongly decided situation out there in today's world? GodRules, your blanket statements such as this, is just another instance that shows how blindly you are following MAN - NOT GOD!

Tattoogirl - continue questioning what you're learning - from anybody not just JW's!!! The Boreans did this and were commended by the apostles for doing so! Don't blindly accept things as GodRules wants you to. Do you see what he's doing??? He wants you to accept and not question the JW teachings. God has NEVER asked that of us. If God truly is loving and patient, like a good parent would with a small child - He would patiently answer us when we continued to ask "WHY". If this is the true religion, they will continue to be patient with you and let God's Holy Spirit work in your life. You shouldn't feel pressured or looked upon badly for having doubts. They should be happy to prove the doubts wrong instead of taking it personally.

Follow your instinct and continue to ask questions! You'll be happy you did!

Billygoat

ianao

tattoo:

Please ignore GodRules.

I am not sure if he is sincere when answering your question. He is giving the point of view of those that are one of the Jehovah's Witnesses, so what do you think the answer is going to be?

Of course he is going to say that disfellowshipping is fair, what else is he going to say? That in itself shows he is brainwashed. The sister explained it to you as she was taught, but the reality is that if the person shows repentance, then he/she may still be disfellowshipped even if he/she shows repentance abundantly. If you truly want to know what a person thinks of the disfellowshipping process, speak with someone that has been disfellowshipped in the past yet did not seek reinstatement. They will give you the correct point of view because they are not brainwashed by the WTBTS, but merely folks "disciplined" by men with the audacity to arbit for God.

P.S. Regarding your question about when the elders step in if you are a threat to the congregation: Biblically, one of the responsibility of shepheards are to keep the congregation clean, so if someone is making a practice of gross sin and is showing repentence then the elders may disfellowship that person anyway as an example to the rest of the congregation, despite their repentant attitude. Some witnesses here will tell you that this is totally fair because they deserve to be punnished, but think about this: obviously those witnesses don't give a damn about the sinner's repentance or the fact that their friend may be in dire straights. They just want to be able to look down on someone to feed their own egos.

tattoogrl333

god rules,

Next time I have a question I will be sure to run it by you first. thought this place was free to post any questions. Why didn't i ask the lady I was studying with? I did. It just seems to me that I am learning other things on this board that she is not telling me. Next time I post a question and you are unsure about my sincerity<<<<< Don't answer.

GodRules

Next time I post a question and you are unsure about my sincerity<<<<< Don't answer

Fair enough. I'm sorry for posting my thoughts. Good bye.

Disfellowship?????????????????????

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