Has your relationship with Jesus changed?

by Honesty 35 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  LittleToe

  I had forgotten that the thread grew that big - LOL.
  Am I to take it, from your pic, that you've climbed out from under the rock, now?
  
• 

  undercover

  How can you have a relationship with someone who nobody is really sure ever existed and if he did, died 2000 years ago?

  So, technically, the answer is yes, it has changed. I no longer accept the story of Jesus, whether it's the JW version or some other version.
• 

  vitty

  Why do only SOME people have an "experience" even when you may genuinely want to have a relationship with Christ but cant.

  And what about all those genuine and sincere JW why arent they given the oppurtunity instead of getting stuck in a cult, is their worship acceptable?

  Its no answer to say God reads hearts I heard that for too long.
• 

  rocketman

  After 30 years in the .org, Jesus and religion in general were pretty much ruined for me. But lately I've been taking a renewed look at the Bible, including Jesus, simply using a different translation (the NWT makes Bible reading a drag) and online Bible commentaries.

  One of the problems with jw teaching is that the emphasis is so much on a personal relationship with Jehovah that Jesus seems to be effectively neutralized. It's as if you can't talk to him or think of him as having any real impact on daily life. After 30 years of that, it's difficult to actually find the degree to which Jesus can influence my life. But I am making some effort, and I'm interested in hearing how others here have come to regard Christ. Good thread.
• 

  Narkissos

  I have probably told that already, but I remember that on our initial meeting with the BOE (not yet JC) on "speaking too much of Jesus" I quoted from 1 John 2:23 (NWT): " Everyone that denies the Son does not have the Father either. He that confesses the Son has the Father also." Interestingly none of them had never noticed this verse.

  But later I heard that they have be shocked that I dared quote the Bible at them.

  Ironically, I was eventually df'd on the grounds of 2 John 9: " Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. He that does remain in this teaching is the one that has both the Father and the Son."
• 

  Honesty

  I'm one of those rare birds that had a spiritual experience before I left the JWs.
  Since it involved "Jesus", my worldview turned on it's head.

  I had one 3 days before I left the JW's and another 3 days later. Contrary to WTBTS compulsory doctrines, 1 John 2:26-27 is so true for those people who open the door to their hearts and let Jesus enter when he knocks. You have to open the door because He will not break it down to get in.
• 

  LittleToe

  Undercover:
  You've missing far more than half of the story.
  Allegedly he was resurrected, lives, and it IS possible to have a relationship with him.

  Christian teaching puts a good deal of emphasis on the resurrection, as inseparable from the "sufferings". Just because it only got a small mention in the "My Book of Bible Stories", and we majored on the "torture stake" as JWs, doesn't mean that the WTS got that emphasis right.

  Vit:I don't think it's fair to level the blame at individuals for a non-event, either.

  I'm going to express an opinion that is very much steeped in "Christian" lore, so please don't take it as knocking anyone else's beliefs (or lack thereof). Please bear with me - I'll keep this philosophical, as I have absolutely no desire to bible-bash:

  Many indicate that such a relationship is a gift, not earned - this is probably the major divergance of Christianity from most other religions, being pardon/absolution free gratis. I would elaborate and suggest that it takes two to tango, and regardless of how much you might want a friendship with someone, if they aren't acquiescent then it aint gonna happen.

  Does this mean that God plays favourites? It could be seen that way, but I wonder whether or not we all get an opportunity at some point in our lives. Another angle is the pantheistic model, wherein we are all splinters of the divine, gaining experience in this life. That doesn't explain why some seem unable to touch that divinity, though.

  Whilst this is an abrupt rhetorical question, I also find myself having to ask folks what they've done to "make contact"? A few folks (after initial outrage) have come back to me suggesting that for all they thought they were genuine as JWs, only to realise that they were going through the motions that they'd previously been schooled in.

  Surely that should be enough, if an individual is genuine? Or does "God" want us to think outside the box?
  I'm concerned, by this point, that I'm anthromorphizing the Divine (which reminds me of the statement "It's not good to anthromorphize computer programs. They hate that!" ). I will say, though, that most of my "interactions" have suggested personality and humour in a manner that cannot simply be waved away as being schitzophrenic self-image.

  I will offer this tidbit: It seems that the harder you work for something "spiritual", the more elusive it becomes. That's not a suggestion to give up, but merely to "be".

  After decades of working hard as a JW I finally am who I am, warts and all. I don't try to put a front on, and my friends know that contrary to my normal state I can be provoked. It's usually short-lived, however, and soon forgotten about. I don't attempt to be "Christ-like", I just "be", and the result is whatever you observe.

  I don't know if this is in any way useful, or needs elaborating on, but feel free to throw back some questions. I personally feel that it's woefully inadequate.
  
• 

  iiz2cool

  Do any of Jehovah's Witnesses actually have a relationship with Jesus? He is mentioned in articles and talks, and his name is used at the end of their prayers, but they're not allowed to actually pray to him. How can you have a relationship with someone you don't talk to?

  As far as my own relationship with him, I haven't tried to have one. I don't know if it's possible for me to pray or read the bible without watchtower crap coming back to mind.

  Walter
• 

  logansrun

  When I left the JWs I also left any belief/faith in the Bible. Nevertheless, I've always been captivated by the Judeo-Christian religion and have done a fair amount of study in the historical-critical method of looking at scripture. The Watchtower and Insight book was replaced by the works of Elaine Pagels, Bart Ehrman, John Crossan, etc...

  I honestly don't know why I can't just "give it up." Sometimes I feel that there is some core of spiritual truth behind it all. In the studying I've done, Jesus was an apocalyptic preacher who did some form of faith-healing and felt that the Kingdom of God was soon to appear within the nation of Israel with a Son of Man figure ruling as God's appointment. The synoptic gospels, according to this view, are much more reliable than John, which contains almost no words of the historical Jesus. (If someone could refute some of this, please do.)

  So, Jesus wanted a perfect government of peace, justice and brotherhood. Isn't it the thought that counts? Can we use his example in trying to bring some of those ideals to fruition on the earth right now, in the tradition of the Christian-socialist Reinhold Niebuhr?

  Or is "liberal Christianity" dead in the US?

  B.
• 

  LittleToe

  Walter:
  Valid points, all.

  I don't know if it's possible for me to pray or read the bible without watchtower crap coming back to mind.

  This may be part of the problem. We were indoctrinated against so many things. That's one reason that I recommend that exJWs go to a church merely for the experience. It's cathartic to realise firsthand that there aren't demons in the pews!