Knoweedge, Belief and JW's

by cheeseman 12 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  cheeseman

  Having been involved in a few online debates with JW's lately, I've realised that no matter how devastatingly logical your argument is, a JW will never accept it. I began thinking it's obvious this is the conditioning at work and that hiding from cognitive dissonance is their survival method to preserve there beliefs.

  However, what are the component parts of this "we're never wrong" attitude? I started thinking back and I seemed to remember a lot of instances in the publications or talks such as:-

  This world is wicked but we KNOW that Jehovah will end this system soon.

  We KNOW that Satan is the cause of suffering on earth.

  The church believes in the Trinity but we KNOW Jesus is God's son.

  I can't seem to recollect examples stating simple belief. If the publications said we BELIEVE such and such would it be as effective? Does this compound "truth" at a subconcious level in the mind so greatly that evidence to the contrary is instantly blocked off?

  It would be interesting if anyone had such examples from Watchtower literature. I threw out all my material when I left the cult so I can't look myself, unfortunately.

  Any opinions?
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  rebel8

  If the publications said we BELIEVE such and such would it be as effective?

  I've had that conversation with my JW mother many times, and it goes nowhere. I said the WTS literature and the Bible both emphasize the importance and righteousness of having faith in things that cannot be proven. But name one thing you have faith only in, instead of "knowing for sure" it's true.... she can't....the WTS emphasizes the importance of having faith in them, then simultaneously removes the need for faith by claiming everything is proven fact=good brainwashing technique
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  lisaBObeesa

  Interesting thought, cheeseman. I think you are on to something.

  The only time I can recall JWs saying , "We believe such and such " is when they are talking to people OUTSIDE the faith that they are trying to bring in. On the inside, they do say "We KNOW.." and the I think the publications say "We know..."

  I want to look that up a bit, but my WT CD isn't working. :(
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  Markfromcali

  It IS a survival mechanism, but not so much to preserve beliefs - but rather to preserve a sense of who you are based on those beliefs. Just think about how deeply entrenched the JWs are in their beliefs, or how pervasive it is in their lives. This is not someone who can honestly consider who or what they would be without those beliefs. Because of course the answer to that one is "I don't know!" Not knowing who you are feels very insecure, and most people are simply not willing to go there. So if you really want to get to the root of it, this is the kind of question you would ask. Of course a lot of people won't see the full significance of this simple inquiry, but since every belief you have is learned and acquired, that's the only way to start fresh.
  
  There are actually many pathways to communicate this, though. Some of it may be subtle and just come through normal social interaction. (which if the JWs understood they would consider the influence of bad association or apostates, but most of the time if they are that keen they probably already have some sense it is just beliefs) As we know this is a group that is very xenophobic and isolated, but the simple reality is you can only do so much to isolate yourself. Now whether any particular individual will see through all of it any time soon we don't know, but there is all this continual input from the world. And of course we know the JW idea is the world is under the power of Satan, but yet it is actually people who see through this trance, which just takes different forms for different [groups of] people, who are able to be free from it. Of course that is the difference between seeing what is false and resisting what one considers to be bad, which is a whole other story. But the point is Jehovah's Witnesses is just a small part of a vast country called Beliefland, there are no doubt better places to live in that country but that is only relative to that land. I guess you might say you can just move to another country altogether. ;-)
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  garybuss

  Just hit the What Do They Believe link . . .

  http://www.watchtower.org/library/jt/index.htm
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  Bryan

  They want to be your friends

  Give me a break. They don't want to be friends with their own family if they don't subscribe to the brainwashing.

  Makes me sick!

  Bryan

  Have You Seen My Mother
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  garybuss

  
  Did anybody notice they don't say their goal is to bring people the message of Christ? The reason they don't say this is because they think the message of Christ was ONLY to the 144,000, who are ALL already (only) Jehovah's Witnesses.
  
  Their message is only ABOUT the organization which is ONLY about the Governing Body who waits to tell them the organization is the way, "the truth", and the life.
  
  
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  Honesty

  Try reading just the Bible after you join their cult and get your whole family snared in the WT trap. The governments should outlaw groups that make empty promises and commit outright fraud on their websites.
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  Black Sheep

  Search results from wtcd2001

  we know we believe

  wt 1746 261

  Awake 468 133

  KM 253 54

  Books 348 66

  Brochures 28 15

  Booklets 23 2

  Tracts 3 10

  It appears to be heavily weighted towards 'we know' except in the Tracts.
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  New Worldly Translation

  They are very interesting results black sheep, thanks for posting them.

  It kinda refutes the claim that the WBTS are not dogmatic in their beliefs.