WTS Blood Issue Deception on Louis XI plus Pliny

by hawkaw 21 Replies latest jw friends

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    How Can Blood Save Your Life?

    Blood—Vital For Life

    WHAT OF USING BLOOD AS MEDICINE?

    Paragraph 4 states the following:

    "Blood in its more everyday form did not . . . go out of fashion as an ingredient in medicine and magic," reports the book Flesh and Blood. "In 1483, for example, Louis XI of France was dying. 'Every day he grew worse, and the medicines profited him nothing, though of a strange character; for he vehemently hoped to recover by the human blood which he took and swallowed from certain children.'"

    Gee, I actually went and got the book. Its actual title is "Flesh and Blood A history of the Cannibal Complex.

    Yep, you got it folks this book deals with the gory concept of eating flesh and blood. It gives a disgusting account of human history on people eating blood and vampires and werewolves. The quote the Watchtower uses is found in the 3rd Chapter titled "The Red Elixir". The title I think refers to how special blood was.

    The actual quote found at the bottom of page 68 and top of 69 (which the Watchtower got right for the most part is as follows):

    "Blood in its more everyday form did not ,o course, go out of fashion as an ingredient in medicine and magic. In 1483, for example, Louis XI of France was dying. 'Every day he grew worse, and the medicines profited him nothing, though of a strange character; for he vehemently hoped to recover by the human blood which he took and swallowed from certain children.'17

    In the book there was a superscript number 17 at the end of this quote. This takes us to page 196 in the bibliography index

    17 Chronques de France, 1516, f.ccii. quotes by Soane in Notes and Quieries, February 28 1857.

    I have no idea why the WTS writer omitted the "o course" in the WTS blood pamphlet. I also think the book meant to say "o[f] course".

    However, my interest was did Louis the XI actually eat children's blood.

    A good book on this subject is "Louis XI the universal spider" by Paul Kendall, WW Norton & Company Inc. New York, 1997.

    The book, which uses many sources of those for and against Louis XI, has Chapter 25 titled "The Last Withdrawal". This section dealt with Louis on his death bed. I quote page 365:

    The King neglected no resource, heavenly or otherwise, by which he might prolong life. In his last year he spent several hundred thousand livres on offerings, not only to his favorite shrines and churches in France but to the Three Kings of Cologne, Our Lady of Aachen, St. Servais of Utrecht, St. Bernadino of Aquila, various saints in hte Kingdom of Naples, St. James of Compostella in Spain, St. John Lateran in Rome. For relics and remedies he combed the West. From the Pope he borrowed the "corporal," the altar line, over which S. Pter himself supposedly had sung Mass. One of his best sea captains, George Bissipat, "George the Greek," he dispatched with three ships all the way to that outpost of the known world, the Cape Verde Islands off the west coast of Africa, "to seek out some things that were important to the health of his person." These "things" were undoubtedly, great sea tortoises; bathing in the blood of such beasts was regarded, in medicinal lore, as a remedy for leprosy. And it may be that the last months of Louis's life were darkened, and his seclusion partly explained, by his fear, apparently groundless, that the skin inflammation from which he suffered signified that dread disease.* Laboring under this fear, Louis besought the aid of his friend Lorenzo the Magnificent .......

    The Asterisk found after the word "disease" takes you to the bottom of page 365 and the following is read

    * His use of this remedy may possibly indicate the orgin of the story, put about by the princes after his death, that he drank infants' blood

    So Louis was possibly bathing in tortise blood because Louis thought (wrongly) he had leprosy!!!!

    So what does this tell us. Well it looks like the Watchtower writers decided to quote a legend into their blood pamphlet instead of the facts!!!!!!

    While we are at, and not to bore you, but there is this quote of paragraph 2 in the same section of the blood pamphlet:

    While modern therapy employing blood did not exist back then, medicinal use of blood is not modern. For some 2,000 years, in Egypt and elsewhere, human "blood was regarded as the sovereign remedy for leprosy." A physician revealed the therapy given to King Esar-haddon's son when the nation of Assyria was on the leading edge of technology: "[The prince] is doing much better; the king, my lord, can be happy. Starting with the 22nd day I give (him) blood to drink, he will drink (it) for 3 days. For 3 more days I shall give (him blood) for internal application." Esar-haddon had dealings with the Israelites. Yet, because the Israelites had God's Law, they would never drink blood as medicine.

    Now go to page 64 of the Flesh and Blood book and read this quote of paragraph 2:

    For almost two thousand years, blood was regarded as the sovereign remedy for leprosy. According to Pliny, when this diease, in Egypt, ‘fell upon princes, woe to the people; for, in the bathing chambers, tubs were prepared, with human blood, for the cure of it'.

    Seems to me at least according to Pliny, people in Egypt were bathing in it and not drinking as the Watchtower's paragraph implied.

    hawk

    p.s - hope you liked it waiting!!!!
    - Note edited to reflect waiting's excellent observation noted below

  • silentlambs
    silentlambs

    email me

    thanks,

  • waiting
    waiting

    Howdy Hawk,

    These "things" were undoubtedly, great sea tortoises; bathing in the blood of such beasts was regarded, in medicinal lore, as a remedy for leprosy. - book quote

    So Louis was actually possibly drinking tortise blood- hawkaw

    Possibly. But it sounds more like he bathed in the blood - like the Egyptians did - looking for a cure for leprosy. His doctors got that blood-bath theory from somewhere! It also shows that neither he nor the Egyptians drank blood for a medicinal cure for leprosy.

    Well it looks like the Watchtower writers decided to quote a legend into their blood pamphlet instead of the facts!!!!!! - hawkaw

    I'm sure the WTBTS lawyers would say they were correct in rendering the quote - because they quoted the book. They just won't say that the quote was a legend - and most likely not a historical fact. Hey, that's not their fault!

    Btw, Hawk, I've never read the Blood Booklet, neither has my husband. It seems that we went over it one time at a meeting or something - but the average jw can't make heads nor tails of half of what the WTBTS writes. The elders would break it down for us - in everyday English - then we would say "oh, ok."

    I would assume you'd think that's strange - seeing that we were possibly putting our lives on the line. But not so strange. How many people in the USA have read the Constitution, can actually say all the words to the Pledge of Allegiance, or even know who the President is? I would assume the Canadians are about the same. (see footnote)

    Guess it's more like human nature, eh?

    p.s - hope you liked it waiting!!!!

    We must stop meeting like this. I've told my husband about you and Maximus and all the other smart men here. He's not terribly concerned, however. He says until y'all do my "honey do's" - he's content with his status quo.

    I've learned more about the blood issue in the last year than I ever knew as a jw. At first, it was really foreign to me - I couldn't understand Lee Elder's site. I would read, then go back and reread. Finally, it sank in - at least the concepts.

    I know that I know far more about the issue of blood than most any jw knows that I know - and I know that this sentence structure sucks. But it's the confused thought that counts, eh? My belabored thought being - I know, but I'm not betting my life on it anymore. They don't know - and they're keeping their eyes closed and rolling the dice.

    Thanks for all the insights into the Blood booklet - you would never have made a good jw. Dig too much.

    waiting

    footnote: "The differences between Americans and Canadians are almost non-existent. To tell the difference, ask any Canadian."

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Bill

    I have done as you have requested but please note I will not be able to talk to you until tomorrow.

    You will have my Email and Maximus can verify I am the real thing.

    Sorry about the delay but I keep my family life private.

    Take care I will talk to you tomorrow via Email or telephone.

    hawk

    Waiting

    I am very busy with my wife and little guy this p.m. - I will touch base with you tomorrow as well. I know very well about how the average JW has it broken down for them. That is how they win. Its an honour to stay in touch with you and let you know about stuff waiting. Congrats on being "free".

    I have yet another one I will be sharing shortly.

    hawk

  • Maximus
    Maximus

    Once more, Hawk has done his homework. Another nail in the quotation distortion coffin.

    Wait till the Big Raptor sinks his teeth into Mithraism, the biggest rival to Christianity. Historians, take note. Did this also have possible relevance to Acts 15 and what was timely counsel?

    "In the multi-faith world of the Roman Empire temples representing a host of gods were commonplace. One of the favourite cults that was followed by soldiers was that of Mithras, an eastern religion that spread westwards during the first century AD, and especially was popular in subsequent centuries.

    "It was based on belief in what appears to be a sun-god who was born from heaven and who made creation through the act of capturing a white bull, taking it to his cave and killing it.

    "From its blood came new life.

    "The temple at the Roman camp of Brocolitia [Carrawburgh] is one of several that existed on the Wall, but is the only one with remains that can still be seen. It was a secret cult, with only initiated people [men only] allowed to take part in its mysteries. The ritual slaying of bulls was part of the rite, and it also had a sacrament of bread and wine. It is assumed that the holes in the head dress of the altar would have had a flame behind them, to give the illusion of life.

    "The apparent similarity of its aspiration of new birth and the sacrament with Christianity made it a keen rival for a time with Christianity."

  • MacHislopp
    MacHislopp

    Hello Hawkaw and Maximus,

    these few lines are to thanks you
    for the post, the comments and the interesting
    researches made.
    Again the r&f are only " given" what WTS decide
    it is proper and fitting for the occasion.

    Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Waiting,

    Thank you, thank you, thank you for catching the word "drinking" when I should have actually used the word "bathing".

    I am terribly sorry about that and I apologize to you and the board. These things are hard to do while doing a few others things at the same time. Maximus knows what I am doing while I am here.

    I have changed my above post to reflect your outstanding observation - I should get you to edit future posts - I should start calling you "redactor lady" (that is a complement btw).

    WRT the WTS position. Yes, they will look at you in the face and tell you they made a correct quote. But keep in mind we are dealing with a serious life and death issue that hurts not only adults but little children. Anything they write must be checked and verified as a fact prior to printing. Remember people will use this pamphlet as their justifcation of their death or their child's death. And that is my point while I have been researching this issue - print true facts.

    It is important that all people, including you, know the "facts" so that you and others can make an "honest and in good faith" decision based on the "real facts".

    So in this case, yes the WT can say their quote is true but they now know (and BTW likely knew some years ago too!!!) that the facts were not true about Louis XI and Pliny and didn't bother telling you nice people!!!

    You are sooooo right about Canadians and Americans. Of course 32 million of the 33 million Canadians live within 100 miles of the Canadian/USA border. There are good ones and bad ones in each country.

    As for sentence structure - well if I had the time, I can assure you that my sentences and spelling would be better. But I can understand you, clearly, and that, in my mind is what counts.

    Not reading stuff - Yes that is how the WTS and other groups win. I completely understand how the leadership makes the R & F "intellectually lazy". Randy's site (Freeminds) has an excellent post about how people think. This is one of the reasons why I am a big proponent of teaching our children how to properly "critically read and think" and how to properly recognize the different rhetoric arguments such as strawmans, ad hominems and non sequiturs.

    Oh, keep in mind that when the elders explain things in english they are using the notes supplied by Brooklyn and not their.

    Tell your husband I say hello and if you don't mind tell him he is lucky to have a wife like you!!!

    hawk

  • Tina
    Tina

    ((((((((((((hawk))))))))))))
    I just wanted to pop in and thank you for another excellent post! (I printed it out)...I just wanted to tell you I always read them and do so apprciate the work and time put in them. Thanks again!! luv,Tina

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Tina,

    Why thank you.

    I have another one coming shortly. Stay tuned !!!!!

    hawk

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Max - I was very busy today & I couldn't get to your Emails until late. Thanks for the information. I will contact you tomorrow.

    Bill (silentlamb) - Thanks for your information and it was an honour to talk to you. I will send the stuff to you tomorrow.

    ComiChris (hope I spelled your handle right??)- I will send you the stuff as well tomorrow via Email. Next time you are in Ktown lunch is on me. You are right about that dunnscot!!!!!

    bibleexaminer - That was great stuff you told me.

    It is an honour and again thanks to all for all of your help.

    hawk

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit