JWs thoughts on Hell

by Oxnard Hamster 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Terry
    Terry
    HOW would Jehovah punish those who rebel against him?

    The whole idea of God having to struggle with insignificant life forms is ludicrous.

    What is God? Apparently a dysfunctional parent in our mind. We project the idea outward into the sky and call it__other. We make it real.

    But, this "God" is really impotent. It is all roar and bark. There are only old legends that He can be a mean, punishing bastard if you cross Him.

    We tell each other scary stories about what the monster in the sky is going to do to us and, like fretful children, we hide under the covers and tremble.

    HELL is certainly a strange notion. Here we have the God of Justice who punishes a few short years on Earth with an eternity of torment. How much balance to that? It makes God sound more like a woman scorned than an omnipotent and benign goodness.

    But, humans are good at inflicting pain and some even enjoy it tremendously; especially if they connect the infliction of injury with a "greater good". We fight wars and the innocent die. This is "collateral damage". No big deal. We have inquisitions and torture faithful believers who just don't agree with us. We flay them and burn them and all in the name of righteousness. No, it sounds suspiciously like this God of ours is very much like us.

    It is most coincidental that all the pagan "false religions" came up with the idea of a burning hell as punishment long before the Hebrews ever thought of it. You'd think having the only true God as their leader, He'd have mentioned it to them.

    I'd rather focus on the human capacity to believe ridiculous, illogical and damaging things that have no connection to reality. Not just Hell. My theory, for what it is worth, is that it begins when our parents start telling us these grotesque lies as part of their "faith" instruction.

    A child's mind absorbs without caution. A child's mind is eager for information and doesn't distinguish fantasy from reality. A child's mind is vulnerable to concepts that become rooted and don't go away. Parent's embed these fantasies and we spend our adult lives dealing with them. And, perversely, we continue the process by teaching our own children the same self-defeating nonsense.

    We have gods, devils, punishments, guilts, superstition and mystical non-explanations where there ought to be objective facts about how the world REALLY works.

    But, mixing facts with superstition is a poor broth on which to feed our intellect. It goes down poorly. Most of us live with that constant stomach ache of weird belief disguised as knowledge.

    T.

  • almosthome
    almosthome

    Gee the jw's don't believe in hell yet at the same time they are going on about how they will be saved while everyone outside the organisation will burn in the lake of fire. JW never teach anyone will burn in the lake of fire. Revelations says death and hell are hurled into the lake of fire, the second death. As in be destroyed. As in poof out of existence, yes...Certainly death cannot be literally burned.. and if lake of fire were hell...hell could not be pitched into it. But death can be done away with, and will, and when death is gone.. hell, the grave.. will no longer be needed, so done away with also. 14 And death and hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:14 (I courteously used KJ 2000 translation... not NWT.) ah

  • Odrade
    Odrade

    I, for one, do not mind the use of the NWT. It is not any more biased than the KJV. Yes, you are right, the Lake of Fire is not believed by JWs to be representative of anything remotely "hellfire-ish." Yes, death will be purportedly disposed of there. (A thoroughly abstract concept, really.)

    The point must be made though, that the WTS teaches this:

    In fact, with God’s day of judgment so near today, all the world should ‘keep silent before the Sovereign Lord Jehovah’ and hear what he says through the “little flock” of Jesus’ anointed followers and their companions, his “other sheep.” (Luke 12:32; John 10:16) Annihilation awaits all who will not listen and who thereby set themselves against rule by God’s Kingdom. WT 2.15.01 pg 14

    It seems to me that, depending on the individual JW's interpretation of "all who will not listen," this may be a far bloodier massacre than most other religions' definition of who is deserving of damnation. Meditate on that, please. Is it just? You've read the stories, 99% of the people who post here are slated to be "annihilated" according to written WT doctrine. Is that what you believe?

    I'd rather take my chances in hell, they say it's alot like Arizona, and I hear you eventually adapt to the heat...

    grrr, no "quote" feature with firefox.

  • gumby
    gumby
    Why not send Satan somewhere else? After all, this is a big universe we live in. Isn't sending Satan where he can do the most damage to Humans just as bad as sending someone to Hell?

    Not in a dubs mind. The issue of universal sovereignty ...or who has the RIGHT to rule, took place on earth. According to the dubs, this issue is settled at armageddon when Satan is abysed....then later let out for awhile to get his ass kicked again.

    According to the dubs, satan is worth the price of allowing thousands of years of the suffering of humans for Jehovah to prove he's tougher and that he's the boss.

    Gumby

  • the_classicist
    the_classicist

    And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. -- Matthew 25:46

    N.B., what the WT translates as "cutting-off" is idiomatic in Greek (I believe, not totally sure) for punishment.

  • blondie
    blondie

    I'm not quite sure what the point or connection is.

    A JW would tell you that Satan has had access to the human family since the time of Adam, and the wicked angels ever since they left heaven to marry the daughters of men before the Flood. After the flood, angels/Satan could not longer materialize in human form but continued to have access to and influence over humans. In 1914, Satan and the demons no longer had access to HEAVEN only the earth. That is what changed.

    While according to the WTS Satan has caused much harm directly or indirectly, could it be compared to eternal torment, torture, physical and mental pain without end. The WTS teaches that Satan's influence will end with the great tribulation except for a short period of time at the end of the 1,000 year reign of Christ.

    What bothers me more is how the WTS consigns or judges individuals and groups to be worthy of eternal non-existence, even babies of non-JWs just because they happen to live between 1914 and the great tribulation; or lived in Sodom and Gormorrah; or lived when the flood came.

    Blondie

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    the_classicist....You are correct about kolasin "punishment"; this is another instance of the Society exhibiting an etymological fallacy.... the same fallacy I just discussed in my cross/stauros thread. The meaning of "punishment" is very well established, and very well attested in apocalyptic texts similar to Matthew 25:46.

    Actually, the Society has not been consistent in this matter. They render the word as "restraint" in 1 John 4:18 (NWT), and the verbal form kolasóntai (etymologically, "they might lop off") is in fact rendered as "punish" in Acts 4:21 (NWT).

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien

    if you ask for it you will get it!

    the world is better since satan came to save us in 1914. thanks satan old boy.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Here are some instructive examples with kolazó and kolasis in the Hellenistic period and in the Apostolic Fathers, with the sense of "punish(ment)" and "torment":

    Wisdom 3:4, 11:13, 12:15, 14:10, 16:2, 9, 24, 18:11, 19:4 (kolasin); 1 Maccabees 7:7; 2 Maccabees 4:38 (kolasin), 6:14; 1 Esdras 8:24; 3 Maccabees 1:3 (kolasin), 3:26, 7:3, 10; 4 Maccabees 8:9; Testament of Reuben 5:5 (kolasin tou aiónos, "eternal punishment"); Testament of Levi 4:1 (in connection with Judgment Day); Testament of Gad 4:3, 9:7 (eis aióna tén kolasin "into eternal punishment"), Testament of Benjamin 12:7 (aionos ... kolasei), Testament of Abraham 11:39 (kolasin tén aiónion), Ascension of Isaiah 3:13; Josephus, Antiquitates Judaicae 1.2.2, (kolasin), 2.6.8, etc., Vita 171.2, 178.2, 410.5, De Bello Judaico, 7.39, etc.; Ignatius, Romans 5:3; 2 Clement 6:7 (tés aióniou kolaseos), Epistle to Diognetus 10:7 (pur to aiónion ... kolasei), Martyrdom of Polycarp 2:3 (tén aiónion kolasin), 11:2 (pur ... kriseós kai aióniou kolaseós), Hermas, Similitude 9.18.2 (dissós kolasthésontai ... aióna "doubly punished forever"), and so forth.

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    Is hell literal or a symbol for spiritual torment? I can't see humans suffering such a fate for ever, not even satan and his angels who I think will get a few thousand or a few tens of thousands of years of punishment and then be disposed of.

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