Jesus Completely Fullfilled the 70th Week

by Ianone 45 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • heathen

    Just reading the WTBTS take on this and they say it was the year 455 bce when king artaxerxes sent nehemiah to jersusalem with orders to continue construction on the temple . Of course they use the 537 bce date as the end of babylonian captivity . They also use the 70 weeks prophesy as a day for a year and pin point the date for completion of all prophesy conserning the messiah at 36 AD . I think it's very confusing to use the 70 weeks as 70 yrs and then use it as 490 yrs . There is alot of suspicion as to how accurate our calendar is anyway some say we are actually missing 5 yrs at least .They state it took 49 years to complete restoring the temple and jerusalem via the 7 weeks a day for a year . Then from that point it's 62 weeks a day for a year that brings them to 29 AD . Which they consider to be when messiah appeared when he was baptized . They use what John the baptist said during the baptism as evidence as well . Then Johns deciple andrew went to Peter and told him we found the messiah .Thus as far as they are concerned at that point was the conclusion of the 69 weeks and then the half week comes into play . Ughhh my head hurts ............ LOL

    edited to add ---

    Cornelius became the first Jewish convert, freedom ---- cornelius was a gentile .

  • Leolaia

    The "covenant" referred to in Daniel 9:27 is evidently the same one referred to in 1 Maccabees:

    "From them came forth a sinful root, Antiochus Epiphanes, son of Antiochus the king; he had been a hostage in Rome. He began to reign in the one hundred and thirty-seventh year of the kingdom of the Greeks. In those days lawless men came forth from Israel, and misled many, saying, "Let us go and make a covenant with the Gentiles round about us, for since we separated from them many evils have come upon us." This proposal pleased them, and some of the people eagerly went to the king. He authorized them to observe the ordinances of the Gentiles" (1 Maccabees 1:10-13).

    This covenant, or "alliance", was the arrangement that precipitated the whole persecution and sacrileges during the reign of Antiochus. As a result, the "abomination of desolation" was established in the Temple as described in 1 Maccabees 1:54. As Josephus says, "the king built a pagan altar upon the temple-altar and slaughtered swine thereon, thereby practicing a form of sacrifice neither lawful nor native to the religion of the Jews" (Antiquities, 12.5.4). Similarly, with reference to Antiochus' rededication of the Temple to Zeus Olympius (Baal-Shamem), 2 Maccabees 6:5 says that "the altar was covered with abominable offerings that were forbidden by the Law". That this is what the phrase "abomination of desolation" referred to is indicated by the fact that Hebrew shqwts shmm "abomination of desolation" is a direct pun on "Baal-Shamem", the name of the deity that Antiochus had placed in the Temple. Here shqwts "appalling, abomination" is used as a substitution for Baal (cf. bsht "shame" as a substitution in Hosea 9:10, Jeremiah 3:24, 11:13), and shmm "causing horror, desolation" is similarly a pun on shmym "Shamem (= heaven)".

    Because Antiochus had installed the "abomination of desolation," he is referred to as "the desolator" (shmm) in Daniel 9:27, tho the LXX has "desolation" instead (cf. the abomination that had been installed) and the Vulgate has "desolation that will endure until and consummation and the end". The Hermeneia translation by Collins reads: "The host of a ruler who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. His end will be in a cataclysm and unto the end of the decreed war there will be desolations. He will make a strong alliance with the multitude for one week (= 7 years). For half the week (= 3 1/2 years) he will suppress sacrifice and offering, and the desolating abomination will be in their place, until the predetermined destruction is poured out on the desolator" (Daniel 9:26-27).

  • peacefulpete

    Leolaia what noble efforts.

    To conclude that daniel is about jesus we must: 1. ignore all the facts of nature to accept that a man can predict the future 2. ignore the evidence about the late date of the book's writing 3. then ignore the contradictions about the Jesus dates and story 4. then ignore the obvious historical setting for the book of Daniel

  • Ianone

    Leolai, I couldn't help but notice that you added "abomination of desolation" to Daniel 9:27. It doesn't say that.

    "Daniel 9:27 " and for the overspreading of abominations" you are equating this with a seperate "abomination of Desolation.

    Jesus doesnt make the antichrist temple system desolate?

    Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

    Luk 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until [the time] come when ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

  • Leolaia

    Ianone....I did not add anything. The Hebrew has shwqts shmm "abomination that causes desolation/horror" in the verse (which occurs again in 11:31 and 12:11), which your KJV has rendered "overspreading of abominations". The LXX has bdelugma tón erémóseón "abomination of desolation" in the verse, which is the same phrase that occurs in 1 Maccabees 1:54 (bdelugma erémóseós) and in the NT. When you try to interpret the meaning of a passage, its always important to get back to the original languages rather than depend on a translation such as the KJV.

  • Ianone

    Thanks Leo, I have read both the LXX and Masorete translation of Daniel 9:27

    Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    read it carefully leo

    "and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate" does this mean that the "he" causes the desolation? Absolutely not, according to Septautings Grammatical Greek sentence structure.

    The overspreading of abominations precludes the HE, and than the HE causues the abomination to be desolate.

    It is not that hard to understand when you just read it like it is, instead of listening to the Premillenialist Masonic Falsifications.

    Cyrus Scofield, the Presbyterian mason introduced that Gross misinterpreation of Daniel to the American Evangelical system.

  • Leolaia

    The formatting in your message got messed up and I'm not sure what you're trying to say and what Cyrus Scofield has to do with my post, or the so-called "Premillenialist Masonic Falsifications" for that matter.

    "and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate" does this mean that the "he" causes the desolation? Absolutely not, according to Septautings Grammatical Greek sentence structure.

    You're still using the KJV, as I already pointed out, and it is not even based on the Greek OT. The Greek rendering is very different from the KJV: "And on the temple, the abomination of desolation" (kai epi to hieron bdelugma tón erémóseón). The Latin Vulgate similarly has: et erit in templo abominatio desolationis, and the Hebrew has shqwts shmm "appalling thing/abomination that causes horror/desolation". The Greek quite plainly has bdelugma tón erémóseón "abomination of desolation", not anything at all like "overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate", so I have no clue what you mean by "Septautings Grammatical Greek sentence structure". The LXX does not support the KJV rendering at doesn't even have a verb.

  • Ianone

    The Septuagint And The Seventy Weeks

    By Cohen G. Reckart, Pastor

    The Septuagint Version of the Old Testament is said to have been translated about 285BC in Egypt by seventy of the greatest Jewish scholars and scribes of that day. It is claimed that the miracle of this sacred translation is that each of the 70 were isolated from one another, yet each translated the Hebrew into Greek *exactly* word for word the same, although none of the seventy talked to another of the seventy during the translation.

    It is indeed remarkable that this alleged most holy Greek version of the sacred Hebrew Scriptures, is now said to be different than the current Hebrew manuscripts used for the Jewish Bible. The idea of inerrant Scripture in every jot and tittle then has no basis of fact. We might ask, which version God had a hand in to make sure it was translated without error? The King James Version certainly cannot boast of inerrancy.

    The Septuagint Greek version is the very text that Jesus and the Apostles used in establishing the New Testament Church. This being true, the text of Daniel 9:24-27, is of extreme importance. Of such importance that if it disagrees or is not the same as that in the King James Version, then the Septuagint holds greater power over the wording of the text than the KJV.

    We find the KJV of the Daniel 9:24-27 text and the Septuagint text differs in important aspects and wording. Since the KJV text did not exist in the days of Jesus or the Apostles, it is the opinion of the Apostolic Messianic Fellowship that the Septuagint Version of Daniel 9:24-27 is the exact one Jesus and the Apostles would refer to in Prophetic fulfillment.

    It is of extreme importance that the word *Messiah* appears in the Septuagint text at Daniel 9:25 and any use of the word *Messiah* by anyone expecting the fulfillment of the Messianic Hope, would be referring to the *Messiah* of the Daniel 9:24-27 text in the Septuagint. For Jesus to call himself the Messiah is a confession he was the Messiah of Daniel's prophecy. The use of the word Messiah in all of the New Testament Scriptures must first be certified to Jesus based upon his being the Messiah of the Daniel text. The expose of all antichrist who would deny that Jesus was Messiah come in the flesh at his first advent, is tied to the Daniel text with such force, as to damn anyone who refused to confess this with their mouth.

    I now publish the text of Daniel 9:24-27 from the Septuagint so that you the reader can see for yourself that the Apostolic Messianic Fellowship does not pervert interpretation of the Scripture when we allege that the seventy weeks are completed, and that Jesus conducted his whole Ministry during the seventieth week. Dispensationalist refuse to make this text available to their believers, for fear their false teachings would be exposed. Here is the Septuagint text:

    Septuagint Daniel 9:24-27:

    24 Seventy weeks have been determined upon thy people, and upon the holy city, for sin to be ended, and to seal up transgressions, and to blot out the iniquities, and to make atonement for the iniquities , and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, and to anoint the Most Holy.

    25 And thou shalt know and understand, that from the going forth of the command for the answer and for the rebuilding of Jerusalem until Messiah the prince there shall be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks: and then the time shall return, and the street shall be built, and the wall, and the times shall be exhausted.

    26 And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgment in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint the city to desolations.

    27 And one week shall establish the covenant with many: and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink-offering shall be taken away: and on the temple shall be the abomination and desolations; and at the end of the time and end shall be put to the desolation.

    Fact : Messiah appears in Israel after the 69 weeks are ended.

    Fact : Messiah appears in Israel during the 70th week.

    Fact : Messiah as the *anointed one* is destroyed (crucified).

    Fact : The times of the Seventy Weeks time frame shall be exhausted by the time the temple is destroyed.

    Fact : Jesus is the one who sends Titus to destroy the city of Jerusalem and the temple because of the abomination of desolation brought on by the Talmudic Pharisees and the Sadducees.

    Fact: The Sacrifice and drink-offering were to be taken away by the finished work of Jesus as the Messiah on Calvary, and as a sign of this event, the temple would be destroyed. It is then no small matter for Messianic Believers to preach and testify that Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed by God as a sign to all the world that the New Testament Church replaced them both.

    When dispensationalist or others corrupt and twist the KJV of the text to make the work of Jesus in ending the sacrifice and drink offerings, the work of antichrist, they are false teachers.

    To make Jesus the antichrist is beyond honesty and integrity. We should look at the Septuagint version of the text and join with Jesus and the Apostles in the correct interpretation of the entire seventy weeks. The 70th week was not severed from the former 69 weeks. There is no gap between the 69th and the 70th. There is no seven years of the Law dispensation saved off the Cross by God the Father so he can used this *unused* time of the Law to redeem Israel with a red heifer and animal blood after the Church is alleged to have been secretly snatched before these seven years are to commence. The very theory that seven years were not nailed to the Cross of Jesus and the Law totally ended and abrogated, is false.

    Tribulation will last only three and one half years, exactly to the day the Lord Jesus Ministered to Israel and they rejected him. And his judgment upon the world and Israel revived, will be exactly 42 months, 1,260 days, or three and one half years. Jesus began his Ministry at the age of thirty and completed it at the age of thirty three and one half years. Jesus was cut off, destroyed (destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up): there are other *destroy* versed to prove this refers to Jesus) in the midst or middle of the 70th week of Daniel. The Septuagint proves it.

    Cohen G. Reckart, Pastor
  • Ianone

    27 And one week shall establish the covenant with many: and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink-offering shall be taken away: and on the temple shall be the abomination and desolations; and at the end of the time and end shall be put to the desolation.

    Hmm, I wonder who puts and end to that desolation??? The Cross perhaps? Jesus legitimate sacrifice perhaps? Indeedy doo!

  • Sirona

    The funny thing about this thread is that Ianone actually thinks he can argue with Leolia on this matter.

    Ianone, I don't see anything to support your argument.


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