by Check_Your_Premises 24 Replies latest jw experiences
I have attended twice...this will be my third time. Our ex-JW experience is what unites the people who go...it seems every person is different in how they have pursued their spiritual path since leaving. It's small, about 40 at the most. Last year, Marilyn Zweifel gave a talk about what she does, some experiences, and how it helps people. Check with someone on the site for the schedule of presentations.
Blondie
I checked out the site. I would like to go to the one in Chicago in June, if for no other reason than to establish some good contacts with former witnesses.
I will have to account for my time though. It will be hard to say I am going out for milk and come back two days later.
I will have to atime though. It will be hard to say I am going out for milk and come back two days later
CYP ,tell you're wife that you love her sooo much that you went straight to the cow to get the milk,,,,,,,,,fresh is best
I will have to account for my time though. It will be hard to say I am going out for milk and come back two days later.
Instead of accounting for your time, why not count your time instead? Say you're going on a preaching mission.
I've heard it said that many so-called "exit counselors" do just as much harm as good. Some have gone so far as to abduct the alleged "cult" member forcibly and practically brainwash them in order to de-brainwash them. Many are on an anti-cult vendetta that is, itself, rather cult-like.
I don't see an "exit counselor" doing much good to a JW wavering in the faith. I certainly don't seem them doing any good to a JW that doesn't want to leave the fold.
Bradley
PS...the so-called WHY-1914 "helpline" can do some good, but is unquestionably from a born-again Christian perspective. When I left the JWs about three years ago I called the "helpline" and talked to a couple nice, but highly evangelical, folks who offered some good advice. One woman -- not Marilyn -- told me that she believes in modern-day miracles and said that she knows a pastor who raised someone from the dead. I'm not kidding. It was very "Twilight-zone-ish" and, if I didn't know any better, felt that the woman wasn't playing with a full deck.
Yes, Logan, discernment is necessary in all things, not just when criticizing the wt.
Perhaps there was a loony person working at the help line. THere are loony person's everywhere. What I am looking for is someone who has experience with helping people, help loved ones, to leave the wt.
What you are referring to when you talked about kidnapping and re-brainwashing is an outdated method called "deprogramming". I am trying to utilize a method described in Steven Hassan's book, Releasing the Bonds. It is a "how to get your loved one out of a cult" manual. One of the things he instructs people to do is get in touch with a good exit counselor.
He is actually trying to move exit-counseling to a new phase. He calls it the Strategic Interactive Approach. His method involves getting the loved ones family and friends involved to help the cult member. They learn to interact with the cult member in effective ways that lays the necessary ground work for a person to leave a cult.
Marilyn is the best choice, she is a counselor, trained and licensed. Just ask for her.
A couple points to ponder:
Are JWs really a "cult"? Is the Catholic Church a "cult"? Is the United States Army a "cult"? Or do we just not like our family members religious choices? (Consider these rhetorical questions)
Also, remember that being a counselor is one thing, being a good, unbiased and logical counselor is another. Unfortunately, psychology is a field which seems to attract a lot of nutty people, some of whom become professional counselors.
Can you tell I'm skeptical?
B.
I am skeptical myself.
Those are good points you bring up about cults, and mind control as well. Even though your questions are rhetorical, let me see if I can answer them.
For me a cult isn't so much what they teach from a doctrinal point of view. So it isn't a matter of not liking my loved ones religious choices. What makes a group a cult is how the behave. If a group has to use mind control to keep it's faithful, faithful, doesn't that imply that they might not really have the truth. When I say mind control, I am using it in very narrow terms. They modify your behaviour (which in turn modifies thought), they limit your information, they instill fear, and they will punish you if you leave. Those are clear aspects of mind control.
Now you did bring up a good example, the army. That is funny that you mention that, because I served as a Marine. The mind control/indoctrination methods that were used on me helped me to recognize the "feel" of indoctrination when I studied with the witnesses. It is absolutely true that the military uses mind control to make its members better soldiers, and more likely to survive combat. Here is the difference though. Although you are taught to follow orders in military matters, in all other aspects of life, the military prepares you to be mentally tough and to think for yourself. The military also has limited enlistment periods. The military has a chain of command, civilian oversite, and is subject to judicial review.
The witnesses want you to pretty much reject any knowledge that is not provided by the faithful and discreet slave. They discourage all free thought, and leave members very morally stunted. That is to say, members become very confused if they have to decide right or wrong in a matter not specified by the wt. They will not let you leave, if you do they will assume it is because of a character flaw in YOU, and they will make your exit as painful as possible. When the wt uses mind control it is not to empower the individual, it is to transfer control from the individual to the org. Furthermore, there is simply no check on the authority of the GB. They can pretty much do anything, and it is expected to be obeyed because they are God's organization.
Likening the military to the jw is simply not a valid comparison.
In all fairness, even though I do consider them to be a cult, I would consider them to be a very benign cult relative to many others out there.
As long as you don't need a blood transfusion!
Check your premises
I love your handle, btw. I often like to say that I don't have much of a problem with the Witnesses logic as I do their premises.
Anyway...it sounds like you have a pretty good handle of what the JWs are all about. I simply hesitate to use the word "cult" because it carries so much baggage with it and doesn't seem at all helpful in talking rationally about the group. To me, the only thing that truly makes the JWs cult-like is their strict information control, ie: can't talk to former members, read other religious viewpoints or anything critical of the JWs. That's about the only thing that seperates them from mainstream fundamentalist Christian groups...who also use fear, guilt and shame to indoctrinate their members.
I very highly doubt that a Witness would be affected by an exit-counselor to leaving the group, unless they already were HIGHLY doubting Witnesses. In fact, such an encounter would likely have the opposite effect -- making them stronger in their faith.
Questioning the organization seems like an issue you simply cannot *force* with JWs. They have to in some way be *ready* for it. And, unfortunately, most will never leave -- that is the unfortunate reality for people w/loved ones in the org.
B.
