JWs and Independent thinking

by JW Ben 16 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • JW Ben
    JW Ben

    This is a long essay and is possible best to save it and read it of line. This is about 14 A4 size pages

    WARNING: Some material here might offend some readers

    JWs and Independent thinking

    There is a lot of banter on the web that JWs are not allowed to think for themselves and that they must accept everything the WTS says, or be excommunicated (dissfellowshiped). This line of thought is often based on Watchtower (WT) articles such as ?.

    WT .

    Avoid Independent Thinking

    21 How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by God?s visible organization.

    And WT. p 27

    Fight Against Independent Thinking

    19 ?.Yet there are some who point out that the organization has had to make adjustments before, and so they argue: ?This shows that we have to make up our own mind on what to believe.? This is independent thinking. Why is it so dangerous?

    20 Such thinking is an evidence of pride. And the Bible says: ?Pride is before a crash, and a haughty spirit before stumbling.? (Proverbs 16:18) If we get to thinking that we know better than the organization, we should ask ourselves: ?.. Really, can we get along without the direction of God?s organization?? No, we cannot!

    And WT. p 22

    15 Apostates often appeal to the ego, claiming that we have been deprived of our freedoms, including the freedom to interpret the Bible for ourselves. ?? Others appeal to the flesh, urging former associates to ?take it easy? because the humble work of witnessing from house to house is ?unnecessary? or ?unscriptural.? ??. True, such smooth talkers may look outwardly clean in a physical and moral way. But inside they are spiritually unclean, having given in to prideful, independent thinking.

    From such articles it has been assumed, and spread around, that JWs must belive every thing that they are told as published in the Watchtower. Is that what such articles are saying? My essay here is to say that those who take that view are spreading a misunderstanding of the facts.

    NOTE This essay is not written to try to convince those that earnestly believe JWs must conform to all that the WT prints, or who no longer believe the Bible to be Gods word, but it is designed for those that are undecided.

    First I want to give an overview of what the term ?independent thinking? is actually about and then show that to not believe everything the WTS publishes was and is expected.

    What is the JW view on the meaning of ?Independent Thinking?.

    The term independent thinking has been broadened from the WT usage to mean no independent thought. Even some JWs have seen it that way. A closer examination will reveal that one needs to have a accurate knowledge of the way it is used. In fact, it is often because individuals have not had an accurate knowledge of what the WTS says, that such ones are easily mislead by carefully crafted wrong ideas.

    I will take you back and show some more of the article ? Avoid Independent Thinking ? from WT . p 22

    20 From the very outset of his rebellion Satan called into question God?s way of doing things. He promoted independent thinking . ?You can decide for yourself what is good and bad,? Satan told Eve. ?You don?t have to listen to God. He is not really telling you the truth.? (Genesis 3:1-5) To this day, it has been Satan?s subtle design to infect God?s people with this type of thinking.?2 Timothy 3:1, 13.

    Does this mean that Adam and Eve had no personal thinking ability before Satan came along. No. There were created with free will. Adam had been given the task of naming the animals (Gen , 20). It was his decision as to what to call the animals. It was not dictated to him. Just how to look after the garden was not dictated to him. It was his choice as to how to go about it. They were not created robots that had to do every thing by a command by God. They had a very simple law code. Reproduce and bring the family of man onto the surface of the earth, expand the garden and only one ?do not?. They were not allowed to eat from a certain tree. This restriction served as a reminder to them that God was the ultimate power. It was God that had decided their limits.

    Now back to the quote ?Satan called into question God?s way of doing things. He promoted independent thinking. ?You can decide for yourself what is good and bad,? Satan told Eve. ?You don?t have to listen to God. He is not really telling you the truth.?? This independent thinking was an action against council given. ?Look Eve, you want die, the fruit looks good, why should God say you cant eat it. Of course you can. I have said so. You do not have to listen to him??

    For over thirty years now, here in , it has been against the law not to wear a seat belt in a car. The reason given is that in the case of a major accident, seat belts will more then likely save your life. The government is now dictating to us that for our own good we have to wear a seat belt. If we are caught not wearing one the government decided that they will penalize us with a fine.

    Now, as residents of Aus., we could decide that ?well I do not like seat belts. I feel as if they are chocking me. I am not going to put it on. I have never had an accident where a seat belt was necessary.? We are free to think that way and not wear one. If we are caught, then we face the penalty. If we have a serious accident and die, well, that?s our problem. The government is trying to save our life by saying wear one. By not putting it on, we have displayed ?independent thinking? we know better, I probably want get hurt. By taking such a line, we are deciding either that we know better or we are too proud to be told what is good for us.

    So we have shown an independent attitude to an action that someone else has decided is good for us. In the case of Adam and Eve, they decided, with a little persuasion, that by taking the action of eating from that tree, they would not come to any harm. They decided they knew better.

    Now lets put this into context of the first article I mention above. Notice the areas that I highlight

    WT 1/15 83 p 22

    Avoid Independent Thinking

    20 From the very outset of his rebellion Satan called into question God?s way of doing things. He promoted independent thinking. ? You can decide for yourself what is good and bad,? Satan told Eve. ?You don?t have to listen to God. He is not really telling you the truth.? (Genesis 3:1-5) To this day, it has been Satan?s subtle design to infect God?s people with this type of thinking.?2 Timothy 3:1, 13.

    21 How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by God?s visible organization. For example, God?s organization has from time to time given warnings about listening to certain types of immoral and suggestive music, and about frequenting discos and other types of worldly dance halls where such music is played and people are known to engage in immoral conduct. (1 Corinthians 15:33) Yet certain ones have professed to know better . They have rebelled against such counsel and hav e done what is right in their own eyes . With what result?

    The context is talking about going against what someone else has said is not a safe course of action. Just as Adam and Eve did and just as we are free to do here in Aus. in regard to seat belts. Notice what the article said about the consequences of not listening to council? ?Very often they have become involved in sexual immorality and have suffered severe spiritual harm. But even if they have not been so affected, are they not reprehensible if others follow their example and suffer bad consequences??Matthew 18:6.?

    Some thought that they could get away with such actions, (Just like the seat belt), and did get away with it, while others crashed and suffered.

    Ok some point the article WT P 19-20 because this seems to take a broader view of independent thinking. So to be fair I will show more of the article that I did earlier.

    15 Apostates often appeal to the ego, claiming that we have been deprived of our freedoms, including the freedom to interpret the Bible for ourselves. (Compare Genesis 3:1-5.) In reality, these would-be defilers offer nothing more than a return to the nauseating teachings of ? the Great.? (Revelation 17:5; 2 Peter 2:19-22) Others appeal to the flesh, urging former associates to ?take it easy? because the humble work of witnessing from house to house is ?unnecessary? or ?unscriptural.? (Compare Matthew 16:22, 23.) True, such smooth talkers may look outwardly clean in a physical and moral way. But inside they are spiritually unclean, having given in to prideful, independent thinking. They have forgotten all that they learned about Jehovah, his holy name and attributes. They no longer acknowledge that all they learned about Bible truth?the glorious hope of the Kingdom and a paradise earth and the overturning of false doctrines, such as the Trinity, the immortal human soul, eternal torment, and purgatory?yes, all of this came to them through ?the faithful and discreet slave.??Matthew 24:45-47.

    In this example, ?prideful, independent thinking ? is associated with the idea of ? the freedom to interpret the Bible for ourselves ?. Now this is where I am really going to annoy those that do not agree with me, and I offer no appologies.

    That article was entitled ? Are You Remaining Clean in Every Respect??. It covered several areas of Christian cleanliness. It was not just dealing with apostates or independent thinking. From the information I have gathered, most people that stop being a JW do so because they can not understand the reason behind explanations on prophecy, some changing ideas, or organizational structure, the need to tell others or because of what they see as flaws in the behavior of others especially elders, or can not see the need for an organized group etc. To think like that is deny what the Bible has to say by example of Gods use of organizations. Right through history God has always using an organized group. (But if you no longer believe the Bible then this discussion is of no benefit to you) Even though the word organization does not appear in the Bible we are told that God is a God or order, and he always does things in an orderly (organized) way

    Very few, if any, leave as a direct result of not understanding and, or, disagreeing with, the JW view of the trinity, hell, immortal soul, going to heaven (or not), Armageddon, the paradise restored etc. If those views are changed, it is generally after they leave. The reason most often being, that they want to retaliate against the WTS. in any way they can because they have been hurt, or stumbled or because their pride was damaged in some way.

    The WT article above is saying that those that do stop being JWs will often do all they can to destroy the faith of those that the once viewed as friends. These ones ? are spiritually unclean, having given in to prideful, independent thinking ?.

    A further example to show how JWs view independent thinking as an action against advice is found in the following article. Please notice the bold highlights

    WT 11/1 88 P 20

    When Marital Peace Is Threatened

    ?A wife should not depart from her husband; . . . and a husband should not leave his wife.??1 CORINTHIANS 7:10, 11.

    JEHOVAH GOD united the first human pair in wedlock and purposed that this one-flesh bond should last. It was to be a blessed union that would result in their happiness and in the producing of righteous offspring, all to God?s glory.?Genesis 1:27, 28; 2:24.

    2 That ideal marital arrangement (the one Jehovah instigated between Adan and Eve) was disrupted by independent thinking and sin. (Genesis 3:1-19; Romans 5:12) In fact, a spirit of independence is one of the factors that leads to the severing of marital ties today . Thus, in the United States during 1985, there were 5 divorces?compared with 10.2 marriages?per 1,000 people. In 1986 a report from Moscow indicated that only 37 percent of the marriages in the Soviet Union last three years and that 70 percent end within a decade.

    3 A spirit of independence can cause marital strife . It also inhibits spiritual development, for ?the fruit of righteousness has its seed sown under peaceful conditions.? (James 3:18) But who is the main peace-wrecker? Satan. And how sad it is when any of God?s servants ?allow place for the Devil? and thus fail to enjoy homes of rest and peace!?Ephesians 4:26, 27.

    Therefore, JWs are again told that it wants to do things their own way and not cooperating that can and has caused many marriages to collapse.

    Just as Adam and Eve had to be obedient to the one law given by God, and the Israelites had to be obedient to the law given to Moses, anyone that wants to call themselves a Christian or follower of Jesus must be obedient to the law of the Christ, must be willing to put on a new personality. To help us do that, congregations were formed, and men selected to help members conform to the new personality and to keep ourselves without spot from the world. (These men were assigned to keep ?watch over your souls? Heb 13:17 RSV)

    We are not told in the Bible that every on wanting to be a Christian will perfectly put on this new personality, in fact no one would reach that standard in this system (Rom 3:23 RSV ? since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God , ?). So, we are to expect that each person that wants to be a follower of Christ will make mistakes. That is why we are counseled to have intense love (agape or principle love) for one another. The RSV puts it this way at 1 Peter 4:8 ? 8 Above all hold unfailing your love for one another, since love covers a multitude of sins. ?

    In the first century ?converts? to Christianity had to be obedient to what they learnt A few examples to show this are? (please note the actions that are involved here)

    Acts 6:7 ? And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith. ?

    Self explanatory that on conversion these ones became obedient to the faith

    In Pauls second letter to the Corinthians he wrote (2 Corinth 2:9) ? For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things. ? ? This was in relation to having a man excommunicated, (back in his first letter to them) and allowing him back into the congregation. The Corinthians had to obey his instruction. Before this time there had not been any mention of such action. It was new, but based on Bible principles. They were not to make up their own mind on this but conform to instruction. .

    In Paul?s letter to the Thessalonians, he had to correct them as to the presence of Christ, as some were teaching that Jesus presence was imminent (the action here is that some were openly teaching something contrary to what they had been told.) and, some had not listened to council he had given in the first letter to them, so he said ? If any one refuses to obey what we say in this letter, note that man, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed. ? 2 Thes 3:14 RSV

    To the Hebrews Paul said Heb 13:17 ? Obey your leaders and submit to them; ? now notice why they were counseled to submit to those taking the lead ? for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account. Let them do this joyfully, and not sadly, for that would be of no advantage to you .? So, there were men that had the responsibility of looking after the congregation and these were had an accounting before God for their actions in either looking after or not looking after the congregation.

    Peter writing to Christians told them to be obedient like children to what they had learned. 1 Peter 1:14 ?17 ? As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, 15 but as he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in all your conduct; 16 since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy." 17 And if you invoke as Father him who judges each one impartially according to his deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile. ?

    In the first century there were those in the congregations that decided that they knew better than what they had been taught and started deceiving some in the congregation. Luke fortold this at Acts 20:30 ? and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves ? . In Paul?s 2 nd letter to Timothy he warned ? 16 But shun empty speeches that violate what is holy; for they will advance to more and more ungodliness , 17 and their word will spread like gangrene. Hy·me·nae´us and Phi·le´tus are of that number . 18 These very [men] have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some. 19 For all that, the solid foundation of God stays standing, having this seal: ?Jehovah knows those who belong to him,? and: ?Let everyone naming the name of Jehovah renounce unrighteousness. ? (2 Tim 2:16 ?19)

    Hebrews 3: 12 tells us why some deviated ? Beware, brothers, for fear there should ever develop in any one of YOU a wicked heart lacking faith by drawing away from the living Go ?

    The WT in discussing Independent thinking is warning against the above.

    But what about the idea of not agreeing with every thing the WTS. prints will lead to one being ?kicked out? of the Org.. That is ovwer exaggerating the notion. It is not the disagreeing with what is printed but the spreading of ones own ideas in preferance to what the WTS prints that is treated with a ?cutting off? form the Org.

    The WTS. has never claimed to be inspired and so have never demanded that every thing they say must be believed. The WTS has long recognized that there are/would be many things that individuals would not understand or agree with. SO, here are some articles direct from the Watchtower to give official answers to this. I will highlight import ideas.

    WT 10/15 54 pp 638,639

    Questions from Readers

    ? How does Jehovah?s spirit help the ?faithful and discreet slave? arrive at the truth of a matter? The Society does not claim infallibility or inspiration. How much is dependent upon the written Word? How can we be sure that this is the organization Jehovah is using when some things are published and later changed??C. P., United States.

    In regard to how the truth is brought forth through Jehovah?s organization, please note that if the Watch Tower Society were infallible there would be no need for future correction of viewpoints held; but because it is not infallible and has never claimed to be , from time to time corrections are necessary. If Jehovah?s spirit operated in the way it did upon Bible writers , inspiring them to write according to Jehovah?s thoughts , then no future corrections in matters would ever be necessary . But because the spirit does not operate in this way today some corrections are made from time to time.

    Jehovah God, in fact, foretold or indicated that such would be the case. At Proverbs 4:18 (AS) it states: ?The path of the righteous is as the dawning light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.? While the light is still dim the broad outline of an object may be visible but the details of it are not always distinct, and as the light increases these details may be seen with more clarity and a corrected view is obtained. Full dependence is placed upon Jehovah?s Word in the formulation of truth and it is from his Word that proof should be forthcoming. However, with greater clarity and understanding, new truths are discerned and something that previously appeared very logical may require revision.

    Jehovah did not say that the entire matter would be seen in crystal clarity instantaneously . With these last days in mind, Jesus spoke of the ?faithful and discreet slave? that would be appointed to bring forth ?food at the proper time.? (Matt. 24:45, NW) This is a progressive process , food being continually provided, and as we advance in the stream of time and observe further fulfillment of prophecy new truths are discerned and brought forth and constitute fresh and nourishing food for our day. Some truths were not essential for us prior to the time of their discernment, otherwise Jehovah would have caused them to become known earlier.

    Even the erroneous viewpoints held by Jehovah?s witnesses during the first world war served their purpose in contributing to the fulfillment of prophecy , for Jehovah had long ago foretold a condition of spiritual uncleanness upon his people at that particular time and the cleansing work that would be done . Hence such things are to be expected according to prophecy and their occurrence is a confirmation that this is Jehovah?s organization, rather than a cause for raising question concerning Jehovah?s use of the organization.

    Jehovah uses this organization because it is meek and teachable and is not set and bound in its viewpoints. It is an organization that looks to Jehovah for guidance and direction and watches his maneuvering of matters on the world scene and the outworking of events that fulfill prophecy and it lines up its views in accord with these things. It is willing to change and keep up with the developing conditions, to keep up with the light as the light is revealed brighter and brighter. That is why Jehovah can use this organization, and certainly the facts show that he has been using it and is continuing to use it. He is bringing the increase. He is using this organization to preach the good news of the established Kingdom in all the inhabited earth. Prophecies are being fulfilled upon this group. We are counseled to remain close to the organization, for even if the organization does have views that are later changed, our safety lies in remaining within the organization and changing with it when the light increases and new truths are discerned.

    No other organization has shown this flexibility to alter its views, to keep up with the changing times , to be alert to the increased light that comes from Jehovah from the temple, for other groups are bound by their centuries-old creeds. Rather than a stumbling stone, the Society?s readiness to alter its views when necessary should be a source of comfort and encouragement, an assurance that there will be continual advancement and increase in learning, an ever-brightening light as we approach closer to the perfect day with its noonday brightness. A false religion may have some truth in it, but it never gets rid of its many falsehoods and the truth it does have continues to be contaminated . With Jehovah?s organization the beliefs can be established from the Bible, and when some erroneous view does creep in it is soon ferreted out and discarded.

    An analogy might be drawn between the first and the second presence of Christ Jesus. At his first advent certainly the apostles at first thought he would be an entirely earthly King and that the kingdom would be earthly. Only after Pentecost did they learn that it was to be a heavenly kingdom. Prior to that time they could not discern this truth, and they entertained a false idea, as shown by Acts 1:6-8 (NW): ?When, now, they had assembled, they went to asking him: ?Master, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?? He said to them: ?It does not belong to you to get knowledge of the times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction; but you will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon you.?? Likewise it was some time until they saw clearly that they were no longer under the Mosaic law as such, as shown by Acts chapter 15 . But that did not mean that they were not Jehovah?s servants and his channel for bringing the truth to the people. So we should not stumble because the same is true today.

    In fact, this ability to discard the erroneous as the light increases marks the difference between Jehovah?s true worshipers and the false religions of Christendom. When it can be clearly shown from the Bible that an idea once held does not have sufficient Scriptural support and that a different viewpoint has the weight of Bible testimony behind it, then the new viewpoint is adopted and the former understanding is set aside. To be too proud to do this is to have a pride that would presage a fall . (Prov. 16:18) Increased understanding of the Bible itself and growing proof from the Bible itself are the basis for altering the viewpoint. This organization is always probing and studying to find solid foundations in the Scriptures for its beliefs and as the light increases the foundations of our beliefs become stronger and stronger. We have ears to hear a clarified truth, not ears that refuse to hear. We have eyes to see the increased light, not eyes that refuse to see. We are anxious for new light and for new ?food at the proper time.?

    This Jehovah supplies, not through individuals, but through his organization. (Prov. 3:5, 6) He has so operated with this group in the past and he is still doing so, as the physical facts abundantly confirm. Past history of the organization has shown that those who split off, thinking themselves smarter than the Society, are soon swallowed up in the seas of humanity. The new ideas they entertain are soon forgotten. They are not preached world-wide to all the inhabited earth, as Jesus said would be done with the truth. These separating, disgruntled ones are not fulfilling the prophecies that Jesus said would be fulfilled by his true people. It is this organization that is enjoying that fulfillment and it is through this organization that Jehovah sends further light and spiritual food that rectifies any erroneous conceptions previously entertained, as well as adding to the rich storehouse of spiritual food available for those devoted to him and willing to exert themselves in his service by telling it to others.

    Jesus said: ?All the same, wisdom is vindicated by its works.? So this organization is vindicated as the one Jehovah is using by its activity in doing the preaching work Jesus foretold and in being used to fulfill many other prophecies.?Matt. 11:19, NW.

    WT 81 2/15 p19

    Do We Need Help to Understand the Bible?

    LAST April the branch office of the Watch Tower Society in Brazil received the following letter:

    ?I am writing you to respectfully inform you that I am a humble newspaperman, film maker, photographer, . . . and I have done everything that I wanted to. But it so happens that I am lacking the main thing: Faith in God. Already for two years I have been reading the publications of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, and I like the doctrine of ?Jehovah?s Witnesses,? and would like to become one of them, and do something good for humanity. I am tired of writing scripts for movies, feature stories and articles that even stimulate prostitution, murder, use of drugs, assaults, and everything bad that the newspapers print on their first page, and which is being avidly read by grown-ups and children. I must change. There is still time for me to use the imagination God has given me to the benefit of my brothers.

    ?For this reason, I would like to ask you earnestly to inform me about what I should do to start in the doctrine of ?Jehovah?s Witnesses.?

    ?Respectfully, and waiting your kind answer.?

    Would it have been sufficient to tell this man simply to read the Bible together with others who would like to do the same thing? It appears he had been doing some Bible reading. But it was obvious to him that he needed help beyond that.

    ( MY NOTE: Most people do not have the time or the resources to dig deeply into a matter to learn for themselves. To become a doctor or a lawyer or an accountant, we have to be trained. There are many books on the subjects that we could by and learn from, but we still need a teacher. The WTS people have the time and the resources to dig and learn and to continue building on what they know )

    He was like the Ethiopian man mentioned by the Gospel writer Luke at Acts, chapter 8. This Ethiopian, while riding in his chariot, was reading aloud from the prophecy of Isaiah. At the prompting of God?s holy spirit, the evangelizer Philip approached the chariot. On hearing the man reading from what is today part of Isaiah chapter 53, Philip asked: ?Do you actually know what you are reading?? The Ethiopian replied: ?How could I ever do so, unless someone guided me???Acts 8:30, 31 .

    Yes, by himself the Ethiopian could never have identified the one mentioned by Isaiah when he wrote: ?As a sheep he was brought to the slaughter, and as a lamb that is voiceless before its shearer, so he does not open his mouth.? So Philip explained that this prophecy was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. The man accepted the proof and asked to be baptized at the first opportunity.?Acts 8:32-38.

    NEED FOR INTERPRETATION

    This same need for guidance is shown in the record about two of Jesus? disciples. These men were on the way to Emmaus, on the third day after Jesus? death. They were familiar with the Hebrew Scriptures, but still they could not understand why Jesus had to suffer and die . When the resurrected Jesus met up with them, they did not recognize him since Jesus had evidently taken a different form. What did Jesus do to help these sad-faced disciples?

    ? Commencing at Moses and all the Prophets,? the Bible record says, ?he interpreted to them things pertaining to himself in all the Scriptures.? With what result? After Jesus had identified himself and vanished from their sight, they said: ?Were not our hearts burning as he was speaking to us on the road, as he was fully opening up the Scriptures to us???Luke 24:27, 32.

    A little later on the same day these two disciples met with the 11 apostles in a room in Jerusalem and told them of their experience. While they were still speaking about these things, Jesus suddenly appeared in their midst. Did Jesus provide them with further enlightenment? Yes, for he explained: ?These are my words which I spoke to you while I was yet with you, that all the things written in the law of Moses and in the Prophets and Psalms about me must be fulfilled.? And Luke adds: ?Then he opened up their minds fully to grasp the meaning of the Scriptures.??Luke 24:44, 45.

    The situation with Apollos, who ?was well versed in the Scriptures,? also illustrates the need for guidance from a proper source. Apollos was an eloquent and convincing preacher about Jesus? being the Messiah. But still it was necessary for a couple , who had associated closely with the apostle Paul, to provide him Scriptural guidance . When this Christian couple heard Apollos preach, they could see that he needed clarification on certain teachings. For one thing, he knew only about the baptism of John the Baptizer.?Acts 18:24-26.

    A HUMAN CHANNEL

    From such experiences it can be seen that Jehovah God caused the Bible to be written in such a way that one needs to come in touch with His human channel before one can fully and accurately understand it. True, we need the help of God?s holy spirit, but its help also comes to us primarily by association with the channel Jehovah God sees fit to use.?1 Cor. 2:6-10.

    Showing that God would have an organized congregation through which instruction would come, the Bible says: ?He gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, s ome as shepherds and teachers, with a view to the readjustment of the holy ones , for ministerial work, for the building up of the body of the Christ, until we all attain to the oneness in the faith and in the accurate knowledge of the Son of God, to a full-grown man, to the measure of stature that belongs to the fullness of the Christ; in order that we should no longer be babes.??Eph. 4:11-14.

    In the first century, such congregational arrangement was looked to for direction. This is noted, for example, when the question came up as to whether Gentile converts should be circumcised. On that occasion, did the apostle Paul say something like this: ?Look here, Jesus Christ appeared to me personally, he has caused me to see supernatural visions, he has given me the gift of prophecy and inspiration and has enabled me to perform mighty works; so let me tell you just what is what on this question of circumcision?? Not at all!

    The apostle Paul and his companions went up to Jerusalem to consult the Christian congregation?s governing body, made up of the apostles and older men. And the one who made known the verdict on circumcision was not the apostle Paul but James, Jesus? half brother, who, at the time, was evidently the presiding overseer of the Jerusalem congregation. After that, Paul, Silas and others delivered these decisions to the brothers.?Acts 15:1-35 .

    What about Paul ?s missionary travels? Did he act independently of Jehovah?s assignment of him as an apostle to a certain group? No, but he obediently accepted his assignment , and this was later recognized by ?pillars? of the governing body at Jerusalem, as Galatians 2:9 says: ?When they came to know the undeserved kindness that was given me, James and Cephas and John, the ones who seemed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of sharing together, that we should go to the nations, but they to those who are circumcised.??Acts 9:15; 13:1-4; 22:17-21.

    Later, when Paul came to Jerusalem for the last time, the Jews there had received misleading reports about him. So the ?older men? in Jerusalem advised Paul what to do in an effort to put to rest these reports. And Paul readily accepted their direction.?Acts 21:17-36.

    To help us to understand God?s Word in these ?last days,? Jehovah God has lovingly provided a visible organization under Christ?the ?faithful and discreet slave.? The way Jehovah God has prospered the activities carried on under its direction can leave no doubt in the minds of dedicated Christians as to Jehovah God?s approval being upon it.?Matt. 24:45-47.

    A NOBLE-MINDED VIEW

    How shall we view the spiritual food provided by this ?faithful and discreet slave?? Should it be viewed critically??Oh, well, it might be true but then again it might not be and so we have to scrutinize it very critically?? Some apparently have felt that way about it. To support their way of thinking they have quoted Acts 17:11, which says of newly interested persons at Beroea: ?Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.?

    But does this mean that those Beroeans were looking for flaws in the message they were hearing, or that their attitude was one of doubting? Does this set a precedent for regarding critically the publications brought forth by the ?faithful and discreet slave,? with a view to finding fault? Not at all!

    First of all, let us note the setting of the statement about the noble-minded Beroeans. Paul, accompanied by Silas, was on his second missionary tour. Due to persecution that arose, the brothers at Thessalonica sent them on to Beroea. In Beroea they met sincere Jews who had strong faith in God?s Word. These were not Christians yet. They were simply interested persons who had to satisfy themselves that what Paul was telling them had the support of the Hebrew Scriptures.

    Up to this time, these devout Jews in Beroea may never have heard of Jesus Christ. What Paul was telling them was entirely new . So those noble-minded Jews in Beroea searched the Scriptures daily to make certain that the references that Paul gave were really part of God?s Word. And with what mental attitude did they pursue their studies? With a skeptical attitude, trying to prove Paul wrong? No, they were altogether unlike Paul?s critics on Mars Hill, for we read that they heard Paul?s testimony with ?the greatest eagerness of mind.??Acts 17:11, 32.

    These Beroeans listened with a readiness, yes, an eagerness, to believe. Thus not only were they open-minded, but they were wanting to have this ?good news? proved true. In fact, for a person to acquire faith he must have ?the will to believe.? If he is determined not to believe, then no amount of evidence will convince him; for if a person looks for them he can always find excuses, plausible reasons for not accepting the accountability that belief will bring upon him . As the apostle Paul well said: ?Faith is not a possession of all people.? (2 Thess. 3:2) But the Beroeans had the will to believe . They considered what they heard with a receptive frame of mind. As a result, ?many of them became believers, and so did not a few of the reputable Greek women and of the men.??Acts 17:12.

    Jesus? disciples wrote many letters to Christian congregations, to persons who were already in ?the way of the truth.? (2 Pet. 2:2) But nowhere do we read that those brothers first, in a skeptical frame of mind, checked the Scriptures to make certain that those letters had Scriptural backing, that the writers really knew what they were talking about.

    OUR VIEW OF THE ?SLAVE?

    We can benefit from this consideration. If we have once established what instrument God is using as his ?slave? to dispense spiritual food to his people, surely Jehovah is not pleased if we receive that food as though it might contain something harmful. We should have confidence in the channel God is using. At the Brooklyn headquarters from which the Bible publications of Jehovah?s Witnesses emanate there are more mature Christian elders, both of the ?remnant? and of the ?other sheep,? than anywhere else upon earth.

    True, the brothers preparing these publications are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers. (2 Tim. 3:16) And so, at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct views. (Prov. 4:18) However, this has resulted in a continual refining of the body of Bible-based truth to which Jehovah?s Witnesses subscribe. Over the years, as adjustments have been made to that body of truth, it has become ever more wonderful and applicable to our lives in these ?last days.? Bible commentators of Christendom are not inspired either. Despite their claims to great knowledge, they have failed to highlight even basic Bible truths?such as the coming Paradise earth, the importance of God?s name, and the condition of the dead.

    Rather, the record that the ?faithful and discreet slave? organization has made for the past more than 100 years forces us to the conclusion that Peter expressed when Jesus asked if his apostles also wanted to leave him, namely, ?Whom shall we go away to?? (John 6:66-69) No question about it. We all need help to understand the Bible , and we cannot find the Scriptural guidance we need outside the ?faithful and discreet slave? organization.

    WT 8/15 2000 P27

    ?Full-Grown in Powers of Understanding?

    A spiritual babe is easily ?tossed about as by waves and carried hither and thither by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in contriving error.? Paul thus urged: ?Let us by love grow up in all things into him who is the head, Christ.? (Ephesians 4:14, 15) How does one do so? Hebrews 5:14 says: ?Solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their perceptive powers trained to distinguish both right and wrong.?

    Note that mature people have their perceptive powers trained through use, or experience in applying Bible principles. Obviously, then, one does not become mature overnight; it takes time to grow up spiritually. Even so, you can do much to facilitate your spiritual growth by personal study?especially of the deeper things of God?s Word. In recent times The Watchtower has discussed many deep subjects . Mature ones do not shy away from such articles because they contain ?some things hard to understand .? (2 Peter 3:16) Rather, they eagerly devour such solid food!

    WT 3/15 97 P 16,17

    Abound With Spiritual Discernment

    18 To please Jehovah, we need ?discernment in all things.? (2 Timothy 2:7) Avid study of the Bible and compliance with the direction of God?s spirit and organization will help us to discern what to do when we face situations that could lead us into a wrong course. For example, suppose something in the congregation is not handled as we think it should be. Spiritual discernment will help us to see that this is no reason to stop associating with Jehovah?s people and to quit serving God. Think of our privilege to serve Jehovah, of the spiritual freedom we enjoy, of the joy we can derive from our service as Kingdom proclaimers. Spiritual discernment enables us to get the right perspective and to realize that we are dedicated to God and should cherish our relationship with him, regardless of what others do. If there is nothing that we can do theocratically to handle a problem, we need to wait patiently for Jehovah to remedy the situation. Instead of quitting or yielding to despair, let us ?wait for God.??Psalm 42:5, 11.

    19 Spiritual discernment helps us to remain loyal to God and his people. Paul told Christians in Philippi: ?This is what I continue praying, that your love may abound yet more and more with accurate knowledge ( according to my Greek lexicon the word here for knowledge means ? precise and correct knowledge ? ) and full discernment ; that you may make sure of the more important things, so that you may be flawless and not be stumbling others up to the day of Christ.? (Philippians 1:9, 10) To reason properly, we need ?accurate knowledge and full discernment .? The Greek word here rendered ?discernment? denotes ?sensitive moral perception.? When we learn something, we want to perceive its relationship to God and Christ and to meditate on how it magnifies Jehovah?s personality and provisions. This enhances our discernment and our appreciation for what Jehovah God and Jesus Christ have done for us. If we do not fully understand something, discernment will help us to realize that we must not cast aside our faith in all the important things we have learned about God, Christ, and the divine purpose.

    20 We will abound with spiritual discernment if we always harmonize our thoughts and actions with God?s Word. (2 Corinthians 13:5) Doing this in a constructive way helps us to be humble, not opinionated and critical of others. Discernment will help us to benefit from correction and make sure of the more important things. (Proverbs 3:7) With a desire to please Jehovah, then, let us seek to be filled with accurate knowledge of his Word. This will enable us to discern right from wrong, determine what is truly important, and loyally cling to our precious relationship with Jehovah. All of this is possible if we incline our heart to discernment. Yet, something else is needed. We must let discernment safeguard us.

    WT 3/15 96 P 16-17

    Loyalty to Jehovah?s Organization

    9 We now come to the matter of being loyal to Jehovah?s visible organization. Certainly, we owe loyalty to it, including ?the faithful and discreet slave,? through which the Christian congregation is fed spiritually. (Matthew 24:45-47) Suppose that something appears in Watch Tower publications that we do not understand or agree with at the moment . What will we do? Take offense and leave the organization? That is what some did when The Watch Tower, many years ago, applied the new covenant to the Millennium. Others took offense at what The Watchtower once said on the issue of neutrality. If those who stumbled over these matters had been loyal to the organization and to their brothers, they would have waited on Jehovah to clarify these matters, which he did in his due time. Thus, loyalty includes waiting patiently until further understanding is published by the faithful and discreet slave.

    WT 8/15 72 P 504,505

    FAITH AND PATIENCE ESSENTIAL

    When questions arise , it is good to talk to the responsible ones in the congregation, who are spiritually ?older men? and who have understanding. (Acts 20:28; 1 Pet. 5:1-4) Even then, if, at the time, we do not fully understand, are we willing to go on with God?s congregation and accept Jehovah?s leading, with the assurance that he will enlighten us in his due time?

    If we have a friend, do we forsake him when he says or does something we do not fully understand? How much more should we exercise faith in God and in his congregation. ?He that approaches God must believe that he is and that he becomes the rewarder of those earnestly seeking him,? say the Scriptures. (Heb. 11:6) We who have come to a knowledge of the truth know that the kingdom of Jesus Christ, and his atoning sacrifice for sins, must be preached as the only hope of mankind. Who is doing this preaching? Whom is God blessing with peace and spiritual prosperity in all the earth? What takes place with individuals who fight the work and organization of God?s people today? They try to tear down, but whom are they building up? If we allow some stumbling block to cause us to fall permanently, to turn us away from God and his people, where will we go for life?

    When certain persons objected to some sayings of Jesus that they could not understand, Jesus asked his close disciples: ?Does this stumble you?? Then to his apostles he said: ?You do not want to go also, do you?? and Simon Peter answered: ?Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life; and we have believed and come to know that you are the Holy One of God.??John 6:61, 67-69.

    The Bible counsels to exercise patience. (Jas. 5:9-11) Do we not owe patience, first of all, toward our greatest Friends, Jehovah God and Jesus Christ, until they reveal the reasons for their actions? How foolish we would be to pit our knowledge and judgment against them! Jehovah?s prophet said: ?Who has taken the proportions of the spirit of Jehovah, and who as his man of counsel can make him know anything???Isa. 40:13.

    And as to the Christian congregation, made up as it is of imperfect humans, can we not be patient with it as it follows God?s leading? Certainly we are happy and thankful when patience is shown toward us. We do well to imitate God?s patience, for by means of Christ he will bring the congregation through spotless and unblemished .?2 Pet. 3:15; Eph. 5:25-27; Rev. 19:7, 8.

    Indeed, the only place of happiness and life is in following Jehovah?s leading. Now, on the threshold of his righteous new order, let us show ourselves willing to let Jehovah readjust our thinking. Doing so, we will strengthen one another to stand against the Devil, ?that we may not be overreached by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his designs.??2 Cor. 2:11; Eph. 6:11.

    WT 8/15 72 P 505-508

    HUMILITY AND REFLECTION

    Humility is essential for the Christian in order for him to endure to the end. Testings that come from persecution are often not as difficult as the fight against the old personality with its pride and its pressures to conform a person to its desires. A person who thinks that he knows better than the Christian congregation should ask himself: ?Do I fully know the history of God?s people?? Perhaps the things you advocate or the way you want things done have already been tried years ago and found to be wrong. Think: ? Do I have greater wisdom than those who have faithfully served Jehovah God for decades, who have spent their lives in research , study and service of God, directing the work of his people throughout the earth? Has God suddenly given me greater wisdom than these??

    In this connection, consider what the apostle Paul wrote to the Christian overseer Timothy. After describing some who resisted the truth, Paul said: ?You, however, continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe , knowing from what persons you learned them.??2 Tim. 3:14.

    If you have doubts, you can follow this good advice . When you studied the Bible to come to a knowledge of the truth about Jehovah God and his Son Jesus Christ, you were learning. You proved the points as you went along . You were persuaded to believe the things you were learning, but not by smooth talk or pressure on the part of the one teaching you. Rather, the Scriptures themselves, with the help of God?s spirit, persuaded you. You were firmly convinced of the truth. You knew you were right in accepting it. You may have gone ahead and expressed full faith by full dedication to God, being baptized ?in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit.? (Matt. 28:19) You said, in effect, ?I come to do your will, O God.? (Heb. 10:7) You did it willingly, out of your heart. Why, now, should you doubt that which you once thoroughly proved and decided? Why should you stumble and perhaps turn from this path of progressive knowledge, because of one or two things that you do not fully understand?

    Also, think ?from what persons you learned? these things. Were they after your money? Were they out to deceive you, to take advantage of you? Or were they ignorant and unable to teach you the fundamental things of God? Did the congregation with which you associated practice wicked works, hypocritically posing as teachers of truth? Rather, did they not take more interest in your spiritual welfare than anyone had ever done before?

    Timothy knew that his mother and grandmother, and later, the apostle Paul and other Christians, had taught him with his own best interests at heart. Also, their example was good. But Paul knew he had to say these things to Timothy to strengthen him for the tests, trials and, possibly, the doubts that might assail him.

    Consequently, if you are inclined to stumble, you should think upon those words of Paul and, additionally, on his counsel to the Hebrew Christians at Jerusalem. He admonished them: ?Remember those who are taking the lead among you, who have spoken the word of God to you, and as you contemplate how their conduct turns out imitate their faith.?? Heb. 13:7.

    Yes, stick to the faithful course. How do you want your conduct to turn out? Good, of course. To life, of course. Then you have the sure formula in the words of the apostle: ?Imitate their faith.? These brothers have remained in the faith; they have ?waited for Jehovah.? (Ps. 130:5, 6) They have endured through trials and through times when imperfect human inclinations would have indicated a different course. The ?realities not beheld? may at times have been difficult to see. But they maintained faith and they are happy in serving Jehovah.?Heb. 11:1.

    BEWARE OF UNHAPPILY SEEKING A WAY OUT

    With regard to this matter of happiness, there is another way that you can test your own position. Ask, ?Am I joyful; do I get real joy in serving Jehovah?? If you have lost your joy, there is something wrong, but not in Jehovah or his people. It is you who are missing something. You have lost a measure of your spirituality. If you are becoming withdrawn, not having happy association?wholeheartedly?with your brothers, if you are isolating yourself, becoming introverted, look out! It is a serious warning signal. The inspired proverb says: ?One isolating himself will seek his own selfish longing; against all practical wisdom he will break forth.??Prov. 18:1.

    If you find that you are stumbled or are offended about something being taught in God?s organization, or some adjustments being made, keep this in mind: God has put enough in the Bible to provide a complete foundation for faith . (2 Tim. 3:16, 17) He has also left many details of various events in the Bible out of the account, enough so that one whose heart is not right, who wants to discover an apparent fault, who wants to find an excuse for leaving the way of truth, can find it.

    Likewise Jehovah has arranged fully for the spiritual welfare of all his people through the Christian congregation. If you hear questionable words or see questionable actions, even wrong or mistaken actions, on the part of someone in the congregation, do not be stumbled and lose out on Jehovah?s favor because of this. Since God?s congregation is, indeed, made up of imperfect humans, one not really loving Jehovah and his people certainly can find an excuse to leave . The apostle John wrote that some had turned away. He said: ? They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort. ? (1 John 2:19) Jehovah wanted only the loyal , loving, understanding sort, the kind who endure . Those who went out undoubtedly found some complaint that justified their actions in their own minds and hearts. But ?Jehovah knows those who belong to him.? The firm foundation of his congregation will not fail. He inspired the psalmist to write: ?Abundant peace belongs to those loving your law, and for them there is no stumbling block.??2 Tim. 2:19; Ps. 119:165.

    THE PROPER ATTITUDE

    Troubles, doubts and causes for stumbling will arise. What shall a person do, then? The apostle expressed the spirit all should have when he said: ?Forgetting the things behind and stretching forward to the things ahead, I am pursuing down toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God by means of Christ Jesus. Let us, then, as many of us as are mature, be of this mental attitude; and if you are mentally inclined otherwise in any respect, God will reveal the above attitude to you. At any rate, to what extent we have made progress, let us go on walking orderly in this same routine.??Phil. 3:13-16.

    If you have troubles, trials, or if you observe things you cannot quite understand within the framework of truth as you know it, pray to God. James says: ?If any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep on asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching; and it will be given him. But let him keep on asking in faith, not doubting at all.? (Jas. 1:5, 6) Approach God freely in times of heavy trial or judgment, for the apostle John says: ?This is how love has been made perfect with us, that we may have freeness of speech in the day of judgment.? (1 John 4:17) If we approach the ?throne of undeserved kindness? in any time of need, we can confidently expect help. God will then reveal the right attitude to us.?Heb. .

    Then, act in accord with your prayers. Consider: To what extent have I made progress in my service to Jehovah? Where have I made it? Was it not through study of God?s Word, association with God?s people, applying Bible principles in daily life, giving comments in meetings and carrying out other assignments? Was it not also by engaging in the preaching activity? Is it not in these ways that you developed your freeness of speech in the faith and your ability to present the good news to others? Then, Paul counsels, ?let us go on walking orderly in this same routine.?

    If you do these things when in danger of stumbling, God will restore your happiness and joy in serving him, and you will be able to express the conviction of the apostle Paul, who wrote: ?For I am convinced that neither death nor life nor angels nor governments nor things now here nor things to come nor powers nor height nor depth nor any other creation will be able to separate us from God?s love that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.??Rom. , 39.

    WT 5/1 71 P 266,267

    THE IMPORTANT THINGS

    7 We must have accurate knowledge of God. But the apostle Paul said in this regard: ?This is what I continue praying, that your love may abound yet more and more with accurate knowledge and full discernment; that you may make sure of the more important things, so that you may be flawless and not be stumbling others up to the day of Christ.? (Phil. 1:9, 10) In everything that we learn we want to understand its relationship to God and Christ, and to meditate as to how it magnifies God?s personality and his provisions. We must enhance in our hearts the understanding and appreciation of what they have done for us. Then, if we come across something we do not understand fully, we will not let that upset us and cause us to throw away our faith in all the important things we have learned.

    8 As one brother in the truth for many years expressed the matter: ?It is fine to learn all we can. We must increase our knowledge to strengthen our faith. But we should never let some small matter cause us to stumble. The way I feel about it is this: I know what Jehovah God and Jesus Christ have done for us, and that?s enough to die for.?

    9 Now, The Watchtower aims at helping us to get God?s mind, his viewpoint, on matters . And God?s servant body, the ?faithful and discreet slave,? has the responsibility to set these things before us by declaring God?s Word, and has done so faithfully right up to this year 1971. That is why it is so important to follow the principle that the apostle Paul expressed at 1 Corinthians 4:6: ?Do not go beyond the things that are written.? If we hold to that and work within the framework that the Bible has outlined for the Christian congregation, we will help others to know God and Christ and not be looking to us as individuals. (1 Cor. 4:6) We do not want anyone to lean on us, but only on Jehovah . We want them to realize that the entire Christian congregation expresses God?s qualities through its various members. (1 Cor. 12:4, 5, 24, 25) Our own ideas might appear at the moment to be good, but in the long run they do not accomplish the purpose, because if our brothers do not come to know God and Jesus Christ and their qualities, they are missing out on the most important thing.

    10 One of the things that will best acquaint us with the marvelous qualities of God is an understanding of the Bible teaching of the ransom. If we fully realize what God and his Son have done for us in thus giving us undeserved help, we cannot help but respond with expressions of love and appreciation to our fellowmen.

    WT 10/1 68 P595

    14 To impress the point of his instruction Jesus chose to perform this most menial and yet needful service. He began washing the feet of his apostles. The apostle Peter did not understand why Jesus was doing this, and so objected to his Master?s acting as such a lowly slave in ministering to him. But Jesus told Peter: ?What I am doing you do not understand at present, but you will understand after these things.? Then, when he had finished with the washing and had put his outer garments back on and laid himself down at the table, he explained to them:

    WT 8/1 61 P475

    So there is much that can be done to make your reading of the Bible productive. Read to understand. Get the over-all view. When advisable dig out background material to enhance appreciation. Consider prophetic import. Isolate principles that are a guide to your daily living and scriptures that will aid you in your ministry. Ask questions as you read, and let association help you answer them. If you do not understand some material do not pass it over as if it were unimportant. God has not recorded material in the Bible that is dispensable. What is provided is for our instruction to guide us in making decisions and living according to the divine will . Do not show disrespect for God by passing over material you do not understand . Do research, going to an index in one of the Watch Tower publications. Take time to read the Bible with understanding.

    WT 6/1 55 PP 341,342

    17 Faith in the anointed organization Jehovah uses today is also important. His anointed organization is shown in the Scriptures to be the ?faithful and discreet slave? that dispenses the meat in due season. We certainly rejoice in the spiritual food and understanding we have received; and we should grow strong in our faith as a result of it. We should prove all things and build our foundation of Scriptural knowledge and faith on what we know to be good and true. However, having received such information and knowledge through the faithful slave class, should we suddenly develop pessimism or disbelief because we do not clearly understand all things ? We recall that Daniel had questions regarding the material he recorded under inspiration, but he was content to wait upon Jehovah for the right understanding . We should take a similar positive attitude and exercise faith rather than be negative in our outlook or demand unreasonable proof.

    So for those that are unsure that JWs can not have any thoughts for themselves I hope I have shown that they can, and that it is expected that there are those that will not be able to accept all the ideas that they present. If we do think differently from the WTS it is OK as long as we do not try to convince others that we are right.

  • Alwayshere
    Alwayshere
    From such articles it has been assumed and spread around That JWs muat believe everything they are told as published in the Watchtower

    JW, I was in that cult and I know they have to accept what the Watchtower says. You can not disagree with them or they label you an Apostate.They put that label on you to scare others so they won't speak to you.I do not agree with 1914 or 607 because those are lies and you and some of the other elders know it.Now read Rev.22:15 and see what happens to those who lie and those liking a lie.Your own litature is your worse enemy.They have givin so many false dates for the end of the world and in one of the Watchtowers they say"In times past there have been those who have givin certain dates as to the end of the world and nothing happened. Why? What was missing? Missing was evidence they had God's backing. They are guilty of false prophesying." The insight book Vol.2 page33 "Those who prophesy falsely in God's name have to account with him."They done this forseveral years. Look on the inside coer of the Awake mag. from March 1988 to Oct,1995 they say" The Creator PROMISES the new world would be here BEFORE the generation of 1914 passes away." If God had promised that, it would have happened, They lied .Also in the Watchtower May1'1982 page15 they say "Jesus promises the 1914 generation will not pass away."

    the "Annointed" are the ones writting the publications and if they are annointed with God's sprit, they wouldn't be telling so many lies.Our Kingdom ministry 1968 page 4 says"In view of the short peroid of time.... majority of people living today will be alive when armagaddon breaks and THERE ARE NO RESURRECTION HOPES FOR THOSE DESTROYED." They sure never read that in the Bible. Sounds like they think they are the ones who say gets life and not God. Our Kingdom ministry June 1969 p.3 says"In view of the short time left, a descision to pursue a career in this system of things is not only unwise but extremely dangerous."What a lie! The Watchtower Society is run by Apostates and Elders like you are no better.

  • new light
    new light

    Phew! That must have been a lot of work! I can see where you are coming from and that you are sincerely trying to help us, so thank you for that. You must understand, though, that WT references do not constitute proof to anyone but a believing Jehovah's Witness (or non-JWs lacking in discernment). As long as one surrounds himself with JW literature, which usually references itself or its biased translation of the bible, the organization can do no wrong. Any thinking person knows that this is intellectually lazy and dishonest. The fact is that JW doctrines and practices do not hold up under the light of modern knowledge or even the bible.

    JW literature loves to remember the big "spiritual cleansing" in 1919 and then use this as an excuse for its long list of false prophecies and wacky doctrines, saying that God is using a humble, teachable group of men. Unfortuantely, this date is projected from the infamous 1914 return of Christ, which is based on Jerusalem falling in 607 B.C.E. It is generally accepted as fact out here in the real world that Jerusalem was destroyed in 587 B.C.E., thus negating all prophecies based on 1914. I would suggest that they find the evidence of Jesus return in the year 1934.

    Like it or not, Ben, Jehovah's Witnesses are not God's channel. It's easy to explain away all the mistakes as being old light or a way of testing people's faith, but the fact of the matter is that the Supreme Being of the Universe, should one actually exist, does not make mistakes or disseminate false information. What's that scripture in Deuteronomy about prophesying in God's name and knowing that person is a false prophet when the predictions do not come to pass? Or the one in Isaiah about every saying from God's mouth coming true? Oh, wait, the brothers never prophesied, right? That is the official WT answer. Round and round we go.

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    Ben

    So for those that are unsure that JWs can not have any thoughts for themselves I hope I have shown that they can, and that it is expected that there are those that will not be able to accept all the ideas that they present. If we do think differently from the WTS it is OK as long as we do not try to convince others that we are right.

    I think that about says it all. This tells me that your opinion is worthless!!! Why are JWs afraid to give their opinions when asked (about the bible or the org.)?

    D Dog

  • diamondblue1974
    diamondblue1974
    If we do think differently from the WTS it is OK as long as we do not try to convince others that we are right.

    Thanks for your hard work on this post JW, I know your only trying to help and thats positive thing; however the above comment doesnt really hold true; its never about trying to convince others that we are right; its about debate, critical analysis and broad viewpoints and understanding; this is what the WTS admonishes us against which seems to suggest they dont like to subject their teachings to good all round academic tests.

    Why shouldnt we be able to question, debate and analyse? If it is the truth then surely it will stand the test, wouldnt it?

    Thanks again

    G

  • Doubtfully Yours
    Doubtfully Yours

    True JWs think whatever the WTBTS wants them to think.

    And those of us that choose otherwise, sooner or later will be disfellowshipped.

    DY

  • jula71
    jula71

    Sorry Ben, but your post proves the point many of us are trying to make. As a JW you are steered away from secular writings and told to trust only what the WBTS writes. Wanting to learn the truth is not a matter of ego. Must humans have a built in want to learn and this is what drives us to learn and dig for the truth.

  • integ
    integ

    Jw Ben,

    That was quite an impressive effort on your part to defend an organization that is indefensible. They are lucky (woops, naughty word) to have you on their side. That's so nice of the society to allow individuals to have their own thoughts on certain matters. The only reason they allow a person to have their own private thoughts on some matters (which I'm sure they don't like) is because they can't fully control what a person REALLY thinks, unless that person expresses it. But you fully know what happens if a person expressed to others, thoughts that are contrary to what the society says, then that person would be 'counselled'. Now if said person did not agree with the 'counsel' given, he would be Df'd. You have claimed that you are NOT in 100% agreement with what the society says on every matter. I officially challenge you to bring up a subject in which you are in disagreement with the society on. Not some panzy issue like what colors the bathrooms should be, or whatever, but an interpretation of a scripture maybe. Raise the question to an elder. Then after he responds with the societies viewpoint, disagree, and say that's not how you see it. (even if you do agree... just to test). Also, tell the elder that you disagree but you promise not to tell anyone else how you feel about it. Then see how much they really do tolerate your "independant thinking". Also, let the elder know that you have posting messages on this website while you are at it....See how that one goes over. I'm telling you Ben...They don't deserve you.

    Integ.

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    This was an interesting illustration. (Should it get a "W", "I" or "G"??)

    we could decide that ?well I do not like seat belts. I feel as if they are chocking me. I am not going to put it on. I have never had an accident where a seat belt was necessary.? We are free to think that way and not wear one. If we are caught, then we face the penalty. If we have a serious accident and die, well, that?s our problem. The government is trying to save our life by saying wear one.

    The government is a visible institution, and it has a vested interest in helping (to the extent possible) to keep its people alive and safe. After all, they pay taxes, produce goods, and also help defend the country when necessary.

    Also, statistics give obvious proof that those who follow safety laws (wear seat belts, don't drink too much alcohol and then drive, obey the stoplight signals, etc.) have a higher safety/survival rate than those who don't.

    However, where the illustration fails is when comparing it to the "non-independent" thinking (or speech) required of followers of the Watchtower Society/Jehovah. It is taught that you shouldn't become independent from Jehovah, which may have merit. But what is implied (or what the Watchtower leaders want you to infer) is that you should not be independent from their organization.

    And why? What statistical benefits come from being loyal to an organization? NONE. Loyal JW's are loyal to the Watchtower Society because they are asked to be loyal, under the belief that this organization is leading them to some promised land (and that everyone else will die).

    So...any independent speech (which of course is a reflection of that ever-dangerous "independent thinking"), and you'll be called into a back room with two congregation elders. And if you don't correct your thoughts or speech, you'll soon find yourself "weeping and gnashing your teeth" on the outside alongside the filthy apostates!

    So -- no INDEPENDENT thinking is allowed. Only DEPENDENT thinking -- depend on the organization! Whenever you don't know what to do about anything in your life, large or small, and no matter how personal, go look it up in the Watchtower Publications Index, or have an elder help you to find the Society-approved thinking on the matter.

  • AlmostAtheist
    AlmostAtheist

    This is a quote from one of the articles cited:

    Some truths were not essential for us prior to the time of their discernment, otherwise Jehovah would have caused them to become known earlier.

    There are people on this very forum whose children died due the strict blood policy, which was later relaxed. I'm sure those parents would disagree with the Watchtower's position that the truths were 'not essential prior to the time of their discernment.'

    Like the others, I thank you for taking the time to assemble that information. But your overall point is simply not true. Any deviation of belief from the Watchtower's official stance puts you in line for DF'ing for apostasy.

    I don't believe celebrating Christmas is wrong. That's an independant thought, and I'm being DF'd for it tomorrow.

    Dave

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