Its simple, just poke up the third finger of ones left hand in such a manor that it woulld not be mistaken for anything else to the brothers if they give you a hard time.
Shane
Apostate Websites
by Gadget 28 Replies latest members private
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Gadget
Some very good points there Oroborus21.
some of which contain pretty ridiculous claims (e.g. the whole "subliminal messaging/artwork" in JW publications) that most JWs and normal people do see through.
I must disaree with you on this one though. In the late 80s early 90s somebody pointed out some subliminal pictures in the revelation book to my parents. No mirrors or looking at them certain ways are required with these, they are plain to see. It caused quite a stir in my congregation at the time because there was also a rumour that the artist who had drawn these had been disfellowshipped for satanism. To this day the 5 copies of the revelation book are stored in a dusty corner of the garage because my mam refuses to have demonic material in the house but does not want to discard anything from Jehovah. Different things reach different people.
The funny thing is if anyone would get caught trying to do something like this, it would be the WTS.
Thats what made me think about it, if anyone would have to audacity to think they could pass it off it wold be the wbts, no matter how unlikely them actually doing it would be.
My main concern if something like this actually happened, would not be how outlandish but how believeable it would be. If we read very plausable things on a site and used them to preach to witnesses but the examples we used turned out to be false under investigation, the witness would stop listening to us altogether.
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Crumpet
Tragedies is spelt correctly
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Oroborus21
Gadget,
your post only helps to show that Jehovah's Witnesses can be pretty supertitious themselves.
The bottom line with the whole "subliminal messaging/hidden artwork"
1. Subliminal messages do not work and have no effect upon people. This is a popular fallacy that began with one poorly constructed psychological experiment whose results have never been duplicated and in fact contravened by all other psychological experimentation and research.
2. The human brain/mind is built to "recognize familiar patterns" especially faces and forms which is why we see a Man in the Moon, sheep in clouds and some see demons and devils in drawings.
3. There has never been any real purpose expressed by the Pro-Subliminal Crowd/Anti-JWs for why the Society may do this or even why a "renegade" artist might do this. Additionally, the idea that there was an artist that was expelled for "satanism" is just an urban legend.
In fact this whole situation is one big Urban Legend which like all urban legends contain an element of plausibility.
Gullible people say, yeah circle the thing for me, Oh Yeah I do see the Goat Head now. Oh yeah I do see the "Eyes" on the Hand. Oh Yeah I Do See the Angry face.
The whole issue and its proponents is the creation of very ultra-right wing/born-again Christians who just want to grasp at anything they can to try and show how evil Jehovah's Witnesses are. These things are no different than when the Christian Crusade made claims that KISS stood for "Knights in Satan's Service" and AC/DC really stood for "Anti-Christ, Devil's Children".
It just goes to show you that the world is populated with a lot of stupid people.
-Eduardo
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Oroborus21
I know crumpet Superstitious is spelled wrong. I think the whole grammar and spelling police force lost their badges back in 1992. I know I used to be a member.
-Eduardo
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mamochan13
oroborus21, good point - the rabid anti-Jw sites really turned me off when I was in that in-between stage (although I think there is nothing wrong with pointing out some of the more ridiculous rumours Jw's have subscribed to). I like this forum because for the most part people are respectful, even if they have been terribly abused by the religion.
Behaving in ways that allow the WT to point at apostates and say "see they are unreasonable" doesn't help the cause.
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Euphemism
I agree with jeanniebeanz on this one... the degree of cognitive dissonance required to be a knowledgeable Witness is already pretty high. I think that sort of black ops would just be too much to handle.
For all those who think that the Witnesses are evil geniuses, remember... most creative, independent-minded people leave the org. The ones who are in authority got there through their ability to submit to the stultifying conformity. So as the old saying goes, don't attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence.
talesin wrote:
I've wondered abou this myself. If the internet is so evil and is to be avoided at all cost, why do JWs own computer businesses and take comp sci degrees?In my experience, fairly few Witnesses (only the very old and/or technophobic) demonize the 'net as a whole. Most missionaries and bethelites keep in touch with friends at home via e-mail. Witnesses, like everyone else, like to get a good deal, and so they routinely use sites like Amazon and eBay. The real Witness resistance is to uses of the 'net that are potential threats to the WTS control: socialization, religious info, and porn.
In other words: "Where did you buy that beautiful dress?" "Oh, I got it on the Internet." --> Good. "Where did you read that news article about the Witnesses?" "Oh, I got it on the Internet." --> Bad. "What a lovely sister! How did you two meet?" "On the Internet." --> Very, very bad.
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Oroborus21
Hi Euphemism:
You are right of course when it comes to the rank and file. For the most part, Jehovah's Witnesses do view the internet and use the internet in their personal lives.
But there is a distinction between how the Net is used and viewed by the rank and file and the messages that the FDS/Bethel/Society puts out.
I have watched and studied closely the Society's reaction to the development of the Internet/World Wide Web.
Right now the Society has the official position of cautious acceptance of the fact that it is inevitable for its membership to make use of it.
But I think that as more people do view Apostate sites and sites with expose or counter information and when it becomes clearer that there is a strong correlation between accessing such info on the Net and Witnesses leaving the org because of what they have learned, it will be necessary for the Society to TRY and make a harder stand against it. I think at first, such talks, and information may be along the same lines as "don't go to Rated R movies" in other words pretty much what they have been saying. But when this fails to stem the tide I think it would not be unlikely that it try to establish a position where only those who are "spiritually mature" and/or in official capacities should be accessing the Internet but that there will be a blanket prohibition on accessing the Internet for "spiritual" reasons. In other words, the Society will basically say that doing your onliine banking, shopping etc. is your business but "there is no need to go on the Internet to find any spiritual food since your food comes from us." As to how they might go about enforcing such a policy that is difficult to comprehend but most likely they will try to turn of the old "snitch-on-your-brother" so that if anyone knows of another that is using the Net to access religious websites they are to inform the Elders.
A "scriptural bootstrap" that the Society could try to use is to say that "visiting these religious or apostate websites'" is the same as "association with such persons" or no different than attending another Church service to learn something there (basically the same logic/argument that is used against reading "apostate literature") and that if someone is doing this they are guilty of a) interfaith b) associating with an apostate/DF'd one c) going against the Society = God
-Eduardo
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RichieRich
Exactly- at first I was sceptical (sp?) of posting on here... But I figured that if someone wanted to turn me in, they would have to do some explaining as to why were they on an apostate website... you know? Yet I'm sure that the GB is doing something to stop us all and catch all those who are still active/semi-active. If would be out of character for them not to...