by drahcir yarrum 12 Replies latest jw friends
Dearest RM... may you have peace!
Dear one, the Bible is NEITHER 'infallible'...
Jeremiah 8:8
Revelation 22:18, 19
NOR is it the Word of God...
John 1:14
Revelation 19:13
John 1:1
Thus, the Bible ITSELF, bears 'witness' to that FACT.
Again, I bid you peace...
A slave of Christ,
SJ
Hi Yarrum: The people who support the 'theory' that the Holy Bible is the infallible and inspired Word of God fail to understand some very important facts about that book.
1. Nowhere does the 66 book collection ever state that IT is the Word of God. Rather, the Bible contains God's words.
2. The western 66 book collection was originally compiled by the Roman Catholic Church, in a 72 book format. King James Bible reduced this to 66 books. The extra 6 books the Catholics use are all Old Testament material.
3. The Catholic Church defined and determined the rules for what is canonical (inspired). The Catholic Church holds and maintains the important ancient manuscripts, and determined which ones are better suited for translation.
4. The Catholic Eastern Orthodox Chruches use different versions and translations, and may contain such books as the Gospels of Phillip or Thomas, not found in the western Bible. They do not use all of the books found in the western Bible.
5. Translation from an ancient language to modern English is a difficult task. Certain expressions, words, and phrases lose their thought when translated directly - transliterated. So, thie means the translators are left to try and select words and phrases to capture the meaning. Therefore, while most translations do seem to render the majority of verses in about the same way, there are many subtle and important differences. 2 Tim 3:16 reads very differently just between the KJV and the ASV.
6. Interpretation, even when using the same exact Bible, e.g. the KJV, (which the New World Translations was fashioned) has resulted in hundreds and hundreds of differing religious sects. Some see the Trinity proved, while other see a Non-Trinity proven, while others like me see both sides and remain neutral. Some see Hellfire and others see the grave. Some still speak in tongues while others see it as vanished in our time. Some see a clearly stated church government, while others see only service and individuality. Some see being part of a specific church as a co-requirement for salvation, while others see only faith in Jesus Christ as necessary. Certainly, as the Apostle Peter pointed out, that "Interpretation" requires as much inspiration as does writing the Words of God in the first place. What are the criteria, therefore, for properly 'Interpreting" with inspiration?
7. The Bible contains many inconsistencies that religionists fight to explian away. And because they are able to resolve some inconsistencies, they presume that they can or have resolvd all.
8. The Bible contains some historical and chronological inaccuracies that reflect human error. I am aware of these, but at the momnent do not have my references out and available to make my point. But the recent post I made about whether Israel was in Egyptian Captivity for 215 years or 430 years is an example of a serious historical and chronological issue to be resolved.
9. The Bible contains statements that are not supported by science or it has been misused for scientific issues. Many statements from the Genesis account regarding the order of creation down to the Flood all bear serious scientific problems. The Bible is often read in too literal of a context, when many accounts are better understood in an allegorical context. Such an approach helps in part to resolve some of the problems between evolution and direct creation, between a worldwide global flood and a local event or myth.
10. Some modern Christologist often do not understand ancient Jewish culture and history, and therefore make many errors in culture and understanding of the Old Testament, and then misapply these to yet again an improper understanding of Christian books added to the Bible.
11. Many modern Christians do not want to deal with the Apostle Pauls words where he 'gave and opinion' of his own with no commend, thus no inspiration from the Lord (or God). And thus at least one part of the wrods written to Christians is proven by its own admission not to be the WORD of God. If the Bible is deficient, or better stated 'lacking' Gods words in one part by admission, then how many other parts contain just human comments where the writer failed to stated that he/she was just writing in their own view?
12. Claims of the care of ancient scribes are abundant today and made
in an effort to hold the Bible up to a high standard, and suggest that God must have made it so. Yet, when I have looked deeper into this, I have found that manuscript copies are not always as clean as we believe ... and worst of all to the amazement of fundamentalists like JWs, sometimes the older manuscripts are not the best or most accurate, but rather a whole additional set of standards have to be consulted to determine reliability.
The above is not all that concerns me, but represents my basic 12 Step Bible Program. LOL Sadly, many fundamentalists come to regard the western Bible in such a light as every word, letter, and mark was directed by inspiration of God making it a book that is virtually 'worshipped.' And then some groups take this a stpe further and have people then worship their own 'spirit-directed' interpreters, e.g. The GB of JWs.
Other fundies get so emotionally and psychologically caught up in their own fantasies about the Bible, that they believe that God has filled them with the Holy Spirit such that they now understand all and have direct conversations with God. They are anointed, appointed, and sent forth to save the rest of us.
If anyone dare criticize either of the above types, the 'blessed' group leaders or the individually 'blessed' ones, we are labeled as opposers, apostates, or those without God, or those who are under the influence of the Devil, or those who hearts and minds are blinded, etc., etc., etc., ... ad infinitum.
These people fail to understand that we have "been there, done that" and we DO understand. We would in some ways love to have seen the fantasy be true. But, as my personal mantra states, "Reality finally cathces up to fantasy" and if one is honest, persues information and makes an objective examination of history, science, culture, and the basis on which the western version of the Holy Bible was constructed, one finds this humbling and at the same time uplifting and refreshing.
Christianity, therefore, is transformed from a religion of proving ones beliefs, or interpretations, or ones glorified standing with God, and becomes a religion of simply showing love of God and ones neighbor. Gos becomes more like us, and we can see and do good day to day without the trumpets blasting, the fanfare, and without sounding holy and pious. We just simply do good, and see what each day brings. - Amazing
Hi, Amazing... and the greatest of peace to you!
May I say, symantically speaking, of course:
Rather, the Bible contains God's words.
Can God's Word BE 'contained'?... symantically speaking, of course. I mean, if God doesn't dwell in HANDMADE temples, and if his spirit dwells in US by means of Christ, can that 'word' be contained in a book?
What of John 21:25?
"There are, in fact, many other things also which
JAHESHUA did, which, if ever they were written in
FULL detail, I suppose the world itself could not
contain the scrolls written."
Seems to me, that based on this particular statement, the Bible, in fact, CANNOT 'contain' God's Word.
Just thought I'd point this out to you and the other good folks here...
Peace to you, dear one (and check NL2, 'cause I responded)...
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ
