Links between Jesus and other ancient Man-Gods

by doogie 40 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Leolaia

  I think, as in many areas of life, the truth is likely somewhere between the two extremes. As PP points out, the case for Christianity being purely derived from Hellenistic mystery religions has been been overstated by some, and supported by spurious evidence (reminiscent of Hislop's distortions in support of his thesis of tracing Catholic beliefs and customs to pagan origins). And the apologetic argument that there was virtually no input is also unconvincing and strained, especially considering the clear debt of gnosticism to such mystery religions and the complex relationship between second-century proto-orthodox Christianity and second-century incipient gnosticism.

  One book I can recommend that critically examines the evidence within the NT writings as well as the supposed external witnesses (such as Tacitus or Josephus) frequently cited by apologists is the Jesus Myth, by GA Wells.
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  zen nudist

  there is a book list on www.jesusneverexisted.com

  including

  THE JESUS MYSTERIES- Frekes

  MYTHMAKER-Paul and the creation of christianity -Maccoby

  THE GREATEST STORY EVER SOLD

  etc
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  Narkissos

  One important element is that the Hellenistic Mystery cults are built on older mythological features which were ubiquitous in the Ancient Near East, including Canaan / Israel. The death and resurrection of a young god (either the Canaanite/Phenician Baal or the Mesopotamian Tammuz) is referred to in the Bible as part of the religion of ancient Israel (only later rejected as "pagan"). For instance, when 1 Corinthians 15:4 states "he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures," to what text does it refer? The best candidate by far is Hosea 6:1-3:

  "Come, let us return to Yhwh;
  for it is he who has torn, and he will heal us;
  he has struck down, and he will bind us up.
  After two days he will revive us;
  on the third day he will raise us up,
  that we may live before him.
  Let us know, let us press on to know the LORD;
  his appearing is as sure as the dawn;
  he will come to us like the showers,
  like the spring rains that water the earth."

  As any commentary of Hosea will show, this is a (negative!) reference to a worship of Yhwh in the fashion of the vegetation / rain god Baal and the yearly celebration of his death and resurrection.

  Scholars such as Raphael Patai and Margaret Barker have shown that the old myths, although rejected by the Judean Deuteronomist and Priestly establishments, had not been eliminated in popular Israelite belief. For many diaspora Jews in contact with the Osiris, Mithra or Attis myths, such myths certainly struck a familiar chord: this was not really "foreign".
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  doogie

  For many diaspora Jews in contact with the Osiris, Mithra or Attis myths, such myths certainly struck a familiar chord: this was not really "foreign".

  on the flip side, somewhere i read the comment that this similarity was used as a selling point for early christianity; "Come worship our God...He's so much like yours'." i always thought that was kind of funny.
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  Narkissos

  To answer GBL's question,

  I think Robert M. Price (Deconstructing Jesus; The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man) offers a serious, balanced and accessible approach to this issue, including both "pagan" (= Gentile) and Jewish material without opposing them.
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  frankiespeakin

  I'm curious,,isn't the Jesus myth the typical hero myth. While it may be in told in different forms in different cultures. Isn't the basic theme the same the world over,,where the hero goes willingly to his death foregoing all temperal pleasures to fullfil his purpose.
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  zen nudist

  I'm curious,,isn't the Jesus myth the typical hero myth. While it may be in told in different forms in different cultures. Isn't the basic theme the same the world over,,where the hero goes willingly to his death foregoing all temperal pleasures to fullfil his purpose.

  The hero with a thousand faces-- Joseph Campbell
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  Narkissos

  While I think the dying and rising god motif is essential to the understanding of the early Hellenistic Christianity, as testified by Paul, I guess the hero (or antihero) character, whether demigod or "divine man" (theios anèr), accounts for a lot of the later narrativisation (or historicisation) of the "earthly Jesus" in the Gospels.

  There is a good precedent to that in the story of Samson (including miracle birth) which has many common features with Herakles / Hercules.
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  hooberus

  Could I get some book recommendations from some of you guys about this subject please?

  http://www.bede.org.uk/books,jmyth.htm
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  zen nudist

  The Jesus Seminar are quite happy to challenge our most central claim about the Resurrection and there is no doubt that if their misguided researches were to tell them that Jesus was a pagan myth, they would be shouting it from the roof tops (or at least, the cover of Newsweek). Yet even they, willing to discard all notions of objectivity to recreate a Jesus who is to their liking, have no time for the Jesus myth. And if even the enemies of orthodox Christianity do not take it seriously, why on earth should we?

  from this website I get the same thing over and over again.... only stupid people can't see the emporers new clothes...

  everyone else sees them, why would you even think he doesnt have any? come on, we all agree that he must have them, so stop worrying about it, only his enemies claim the clothes dont exist.

  seems to me like just more intellectual bullying... pressure of the masses without any evidence.