Just my thoughts on Dunsscot

by JT 17 Replies latest jw friends

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  dunsscot

  larc writes:

  :My thoughts about Duns are similiar to yours. It seems to me that if he used the kind language used here, at the kingdom hall, he would be a social isolate. He may be an introverted intellectual to begin with so lack of interpersonal interaction may not bother him. He loves the world of ideas, but I think he has distanced himself from the emotional and personal damage that those ideas can cause. Double 006 made an interesting post about the psychological dynamics of one of Duns favorite philosophers, Kirkegard. It may be that Duns shares those dynamics with this philosopher. These are inferences on my part, but they do seem to add up.:

  I am an introverted individual who loves to spend time reading and reflecting. According to the Myers-Brigg test, I'm even an INTP. The Scot tends to agree with that analysis. For I am one who spends a great amount of time in the nunc stans, so to speak. Indeed, the bios theoretikos is an insulated, fulfilling, and somewhat safe activity. The world of ideas normally does not cause pain: the philosopher actually manipulates ideas, IMHO, as he or she thinks on that which is immutable and incapable of truly undergoing change or erosion.

  But I do not agree with Dave's analysis at all. I presently get along just fine with my father, and he knows that he cannot control me, no matter how hard he tries. He's a fine, dignified Christian man, just trying to serve God according to His Word. True, when I was young, my dad was oppressive and overweening. We have to move on, however. Even certain brands of psychology teach us that. Personally, I think the locus of control is more internal than external. My introversion or my being a JW is not necessarily caused by childhood trauma. Introversion, being a Witness, and having an overbearing father may not correlate statistically, if such a test were actually carried out.

  Just some thoughts,
  Dan
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  larc

  Duns,

  I believe that a person's degree of introversion - extraversion is genetic and set at birth with some degree of modification, through life, but not much. Therefore, I don't see that your relationship with your father or your religion has anything to do with it. Now, internal versus external of control, or locus of control, is probably learned, not genetic. I would suspect that your father had a high internal locus of control and probably served as a role model in this area of behavior.

  By the way, on the other thread I posted some comments about Freud for your edification and delight.
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  dunsscot

  One more thought crosses my mind tonight. No wisecracks, okay? :-)

  A few years ago, I heard an essay read on the subject of infinitism. While I could not accept the skeptical brand of philosophy espoused by the thinker reading the paper, I began to think about how one might apply the principles of infinitism to the Witness religion.

  In short, infinitism contends that reason is limited. One can only get so far employing the human intellect to solve logical problemata. If we carry reason to its limits, the skeptic says that we either wind up with foundationalism or circularity. (Neither one is desirable.)

  Infinitism tries to avoid this two-horned dilemma by exhorting us to remember that reasons are infinite. In other words, we may know that a certain proposition (P) is true because of reasons A, B, and C. But the skeptic (the infinitist) contends that there are further reaons in the evidentiary chain that we can never exhaust because the chain of reasons is infinite, but we are finite. Thus, we must suspend judgment about ANYTHING (P in this case), all the while remembering that we do not yet have knowledge of D, E, or F.

  If we think about infinitism in relation to the JW faith, one must ask if he or she can EVER make a decision one way or the other about being a Witness or leaving the organization. For the faithful JW may know that A, B, and C support his or her remaining a Witness. But what about D, E, and F? Maybe one could simply say with Pascal, 'The heart has reasons that reason does not know.' Or maybe the Witness should reject infinitism and adopt another theory of knowledge to solve his quandary.

  Duns the Scot
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  D wiltshire

  Duns,

  It so nice to see your better side:

  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  I do not think I advocate or insist on "personal opinions." Admittedly, I do have certain ideas about particular areas of Witness doctrine. But maybe it might be better to say that I have lots of questions about my beliefs. However, I've learned that there are some beings who will never stop questioning. I have questioned teachings of the Society ever since I've been a Witness. As I've grown older my bones have started to creak, I'm still inquiring and seeking the truth.

  I just like to say you can be a Christian without the Organization. Christians don’t need another go- between we have Christ and that’s is it.

  You’re a smart man. Its not different ideas that cause divisions it’s a lack of love and respect for one another.

  Another thing Paul said in Acts 20:29,30
  “Oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30 and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.”

  It’s these oppressive wolves that insist that everybody except their authority, and their interpretation of thing that are unclear in the Bible and open to different points of view. These are the ones who divide the Body of Christ.

  Love is what brings genuine unity not dogmatism.
  “Love is a perfect bond of union”

  Jesus said “ You will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free”.
  Men and organization seek for the most part to enslave.
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  LDH

  Hi Duns. Welcome to the board, if I haven't done it before.

  I, too, love words. I am currently reading The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language.

  Do you know what my high school nickname was? Webster. I didn't find out that my peers were calling me that behind my back until the last day of school.

  Webster. For the dictionary they said I sounded like.

  I pretended to be flattered but in truth I was crushed. It was like the pretend acceptance I thought I had, I didn't even have that. Ever since then, I've kind of made it a point to speak 'down,' if that's the right word.

  I came by it honest, though. My mom would love to talk to you, she might even give you a lexicon-ish run for your money, LOL.

  Anyhow, I just wanted to say that remaining a JW is extremely difficult when you have an IQ anywhere over, say, 10. So when we have a visitor to the board who 'appears' to be so smart, but yet talks about how he is 'waiting for God to make adjustments to his organization in his own time,' believe me when I say we smile.

  There are some 'dumb ones' here who could put the 'wise ones' to shame.

  I do understand that you are in the process of 'rationalizing.' But no matter how much thought you put into it, two and two won't make four with the JWs.

  Just my two,
  Lisa

  PS, Jesus gave what many consider to be the greatest speech, The Sermon on The Mount, and yet none of his words go over a fourth grade level.
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  Winston

  Dunsscot,

  Thanks for simpifing you speech its nice to read your input.
  A man who really knows his subject can in my estimation break it down and explain it so all can understand. I hope your not too hurt by some comments. Please feel free to tell us more about your feeling on different matter. As you can see alot of people read your posts.

  Just make it a little easier for us all to understand. You never know what you might accomplish.

  The Never Ending Search For Truth
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  JT

  Dun thanks for the response

  it is refreshing to see a jw admit that there are issues that concern them about the org

  most jw simply bury thier heads and keep saying EVERYTHING IS OK EVERYTHING IS OK

  thanks for your thoughts and honest answers

  james
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  DevilsAdvocate_DA

  JT,

  Enjoyed your thoughts.

  Dunscot's is OK.

  I would like to add that my wife and I went back to college at the old age of 40ish. Our major was phychology.

  We believe the better educated you are in all fields of choice the better a person we become.

  I say this because we are no longer in the forest(WBTS) but standing on the outside looking in. Yes we are active JW, but that does not mean we have blindfolders on. We let Jehovah and His Son handle the important issues of life. I believe they have a good view of what is going on. What they want to do with it is, well, none of my business.

  I have used this illustration many a times. In fact just yesterday at the Home Depot store. I would like to share it with you.

  We have two persons. One in a forest and one in a airplane overhead.

  The one in the airplane ask the person in the forest what does he see.

  The person in the forest says he is in a forest of pines.

  The person in the airplane remarks back, no you are in a forest of oak.

  The better view of the pilot sees the total picture. The person in the forest was correct from his viewpoint. All he could see were pine trees around him. However, the pine grove was just a small part of the total forest that the airplane pilot saw, which was oak.

  The more we educate ourselves the more we see the total picture like the pilot in the airplane.

  I do not care to labor the issue, but I believe about 50 percent of the elders (world wide) don't even have a high school degree. Know that make chills go up ones back.

  JT, my wife and I hope we never stop learning. We like the view from the airplane.

  DA