Blood taking...is it a disfellowshipping offence or up to conscience.

by Gill 41 Replies latest jw friends

  • IT Support
    IT Support
    As for the Society's statement that they don't DF someone for taking blood, but that the person DA's themselves, is another load of shit. Unless a person writes a letter stating that they WANT to be DA'd, it's still happening at the instigation of the Watch Tower Society. Who do they think they're fooling?

    Mary's absolutely right.

    The Society form S-77a is called Summation of Disfellowshipping or Disassociation and is completed by elders and sent to WT to give them the details of the judical committee case.

    Item 2 is headed Disassociation. It says:

    Specify by what action(s) the person disassociated himself (such as resignation, non-neutral activity, failure to abstain from blood, or joining another religion):

    I wonder if the Bulgarian version of this form is different?

    I wonder what the European Union would think of this?

  • Gill
    Gill

    Thanks LittleToe, Everyone.

    Don't know how I managed to miss that news release in 2000 on the change from disfellowshiping to disassociation for taking blood. Sounds more like, 'we'll punch them instead of hit them' to me!

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    TD,

    That is interesting! I definitely was told, to this day, that Factor VIII is prohibited. I do remember being told that at the meetings and assemblies. Because of all the medical neglect I went through due to being told not to accept Factor VIII, I am beyond shocked that it wasn't against the rules in the first place. I have no words. I almost died for nothing?!

    I would love to quote the WT article you listed to my mom. Do you have it on disc or something, so you could post a quote? I'd love it if you could.

    Of course, it's so bizarre that whole blood would be forbidden, while blood cells from 1000s of donors (as in Factor VIII) would be allowed. That makes no sense. Big surprise.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    My link to a copy of the "Pay Attention Book", for elders, seems to have been removed. Before they took my copy off me I took photocopies of the most relevant bits. This was c. 1995

    "Unit 5 (a) Uphold Jehovah's Righteousness

    "The scriptures clearly show that Jehovah forbids certain conduct among his clean people..........................

    [there follows a list with explanatory notes, the ninth item being]

    Failure to abstain from Blood (Gen 9.4 ; Acts 15 20 ) "

    These were situations that called for the formation of a Judicial Committee. I gather that nowadays it is considered dissassociation. Howeve I have always found that the dubs that I know have always been totally committed to the idea of refusing blood. I think a lot has to do with the safety scares that have been interwoven with "scriptural reasons"

  • Gill
    Gill

    I think you're right there BluesBrother. The safety issue is perhaps the primary concern rather than anything scriptural. Something I have heard many times, including from my parents was that not taking blood is a way of Jehovah protecting 'us' from Aids and Hepatitis and other dangerous diseases. I've rarely heard anyone say, 'I'm so glad we don't take blood because it shows we hold life sacred'.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    I had always understood in recent years that the taking of factor 8 was ok if your conscince allowed it. Did not Ray Franz talk about the New Light on this subject coming out in his day? Or is that my memory playing up again ?.. anyway :

    ***

    w78 6/15 pp. 30-31 Questions from Readers ***

    ?

    Are serum injections compatible with Christian belief?

    In our issue of June 1, 1974, we presented in this column a detailed consideration of the use of vaccines (which do not contain blood) and of serums that are made from blood. For such details, please see that presentation on pages 351, 352.

    It acknowledged that the medical profession is increasingly turning from the use of whole blood transfusions. Instead, human blood is being separated into primary components that can be transfused?red cells, white cells, platelets and plasma. On this we said: "We believe that the use of blood as a [life-sustaining] transfusion, or the use of a blood component to accomplish a similar purpose, is obviously in conflict with the Scriptural command to ?abstain . . . from blood.? (Acts 15:20)"

    What, however, about accepting serum injections to fight against disease, such as are employed for diphtheria, tetanus, viral hepatitis, rabies, hemophilia and Rh incompatibility? This seems to fall into a ?gray area.? Some Christians believe that accepting a small amount of a blood derivative for such a purpose would not be a manifestation of disrespect for God?s law; their conscience would permit such. (Compare Luke 6:1-5.) Others, though, feel conscientiously obliged to refuse serums because these contain blood, though only a tiny amount. Hence, we have taken the position that this question must be resolved by each individual on a personal basis. We urge each one to strive to have a clear conscience and to be responsive to God?s guidance found in His Word.?Ps. 119:105.

  • Trevor Scott
    Trevor Scott

    they insist that taking blood or blood products has always been a matter of conscience and no one has EVER been disfellowshipped for taking blood.

    Not true at all. The Society has softened their stance on blood in recent years and they would love nothing more than for the world at large to conveniently forget about their previous total ban on blood:

    Is it wrong to sustain life by infusions of blood or plasma or red cells or the various blood fractions? Yes! ... regardless of whether it is whole blood or a blood fraction, whether it is blood taken from one's own body or that taken from someone else, whether it is administrated as a transfusion or an injection, the divine law applies. --The Watchtower 09/15/1961 p. 557-559

    TS.

  • jeanniebeanz
    jeanniebeanz
    Glad you're still with us

    Thanks!

    J

  • TD
    TD

    A Brief History of the Transfusion Medicine Taboo

    February 4, 1931

    Although vaccination had been condemned as a fraudulent practice as early as 1921, here it is prohibited specifically on scriptural grounds:

    "Vaccination is a direct violation of the Everlasting Covenant that God made with Noah after the flood.....much looseness of our day along sexual lines may be traceable to the easy and continual violation of the divine commands to keep human and animal blood apart from each other. With cells of foreign blood racing through his veins a man is not normal, not himself, but lacks the poise and balance which makes for self control."

    "All reasonable minds must conclude that it was not the eating of the blood that God objected to, but it was the bringing the blood of the beast in contact with the blood of man" (G31 2/4 p. 293,294)

    April 24, 1935

    The 1931 position on vaccinations is reiterated:

    "As vaccination is a direct injection of animal matter in the blood stream vaccination is a direct violation of the law of Jehovah God." (G35 4/24 p. 465)

    December 22, 1943

    The reasoning on vaccinations is revised. Vaccinations are now condemned on the basis that they violate the divine prohibition against eating blood.

    "Under present methods of immunization, for instance, meningitis germs are injected into a horse. It is these anti-bodies in serums made from the animal's blood which immunize persons against meningitis. Other serums are obtained similarly. The divine prohibition as to eating or partaking of blood does not appear to trouble the "scientists." " (G43 12/22 p. 23)

    July 1, 1945

    Blood transfusions are identified as a being "related" to eating blood. Although the reference is somewhat oblique, JW literature today claims this was the first official statement of position against transfusion medicine. (W45 pp. 198-201)

    December 15, 1952

    The earlier position on vaccinations is officially reversed:

    ยท Is vaccination a violation of God's law forbidding the taking of blood into the system??G. C., North Carolina.

    "The matter of vaccination is one for the individual that has to face it to decide for himself. Each individual has to take the consequences for whatever position and action he takes toward a case of compulsory vaccination, doing so according to his own conscience and his appreciation of what is for good health and the interests of advancing God's work.....After consideration of the matter, it does not appear to us to be in violation of the everlasting covenant made with Noah, as set down in Genesis 9:4, nor contrary to God's related commandment at Leviticus 17:10-14 (W52 p. 764)

    January 8, 1954

    Gamma globulin is specifically forbidden:

    "We are told that it takes one and a third pints of whole blood to get enough of the blood protein or "fraction" known as gamma globulin for one injection. And since from the foregoing it must be admitted that such use of human blood is highly questionable, what justification can there be for the use of gamma globulin? Further, those interested in the Scriptural aspect will note that its being made of whole blood places it in the same category as blood transfusions as far as Jehovah's prohibition of taking blood into the system is concerned." (G54 1/8 p. 24)

    September 8, 1956

    Serum albumin is specifically forbidden:

    "While this physician argues for the use of certain blood fractions, particularly albumin, such also come under the Scriptural ban. In fact, these fractions are being used not only by physicians but also by food processors, and so it would be well to note the labels on such products to see if they contain any blood substances or fractions. When in doubt, it would be best to do without." (G56 9/8 p. 20)

    September 15, 1958

    A slight easing of the original position: Serums, such as the diphtheria antitoxin and fractions such as gamma globulin are now allowed as conscience permits on the basis that these 'do not nourish the body'.

    "While God did not intend for man to contaminate his blood stream by vaccines, serums or blood fractions, doing so does not seem to be included in God's expressed will forbidding blood as food. It would therefore be a matter of individual judgment whether one accepted such types of medication or not." (W58 p. 575)

    October 15, 1959

    Blood apart from the body must be poured out in accordance with the Mosaic Law. Autologous transfusions are thereby prohibited. (W59 p. 640)

    January 15, 1961

    The 'misuse' of blood becomes a disfellowshiping offense. (W61 pp. 63,64)

    September 15 1961

    The 1958 reversal is reversed. The Society states the issue in terms that preclude any and all medical uses of blood including the use of plasma proteins in serums and antitoxins:

    "The two world wars and the Korean war gave doctors ample opportunity to experiment with the therapeutic use of blood, and now the process has been developed to the point that doctors use not only whole blood and blood plasma, which is the nearly colorless liquid in which the blood cells are carried, but also red cells apart from the plasma, and the various plasma proteins as they feel the need. Is God?s law violated by such medical use of blood? Is it wrong to sustain life by infusions of blood or plasma or red cells or the various blood fractions? Yes!"

    "In view of the emphasis put on the use of blood in the medical world, new treatments involving its use are constantly being recommended. But regardless of whether it is whole blood or a blood fraction, whether it is blood taken from one's own body or that taken from someone else, whether it is administered as a transfusion or as an injection, the divine law applies. God has not given man blood to use as he might use other substances; he requires respect for the sanctity of blood." (W61 pp. 558, 559 emphasis added)

    November 1, 1961

    The Society is questioned on the reversal of the 1958 position. Referring back to the 1958 Watchtower, they again exclude vaccinations from the prohibition. However, the stance regarding gamma globulin and other plasma proteins (serums) is now very unclear.

    "As to the use of vaccines and other substances that may in some way involve the use of blood in their preparation, it should not be concluded that the Watch Tower Society endorses these and says that the practice is right and proper. However, vaccination is a virtually unavoidable practice in many segments of modern society, and the Christian may find some comfort under the circumstances in the fact that this use is not in actuality a feeding or nourishing process, which was specifically forbidden when God said that man was not to eat blood, but it is a contamination of the human system." (W61 p. 670)

    February 15, 1963

    The strong wording of the September 15, 1961 Watchtower is again restated. The Society again explains their position in terms that would rule out any and all uses of blood including the use of plasma proteins in serums and antitoxins. It is unclear whether this is the result of a difference of opinion in the writing department or whether one writer was simply ignorant about plasma proteins and their uses:

    "He need only ask the doctor: "From what was the plasma taken?" "How are the red cells obtained?" "Where did you get this substance?" If the answer is "Blood," he knows what course to take, for it is not just whole blood but anything that is derived from blood and used to sustain life or strengthen one that comes under this principle." (W63 p. 124)

    November 15, 1964

    The use of serums is again excluded from the prohibition on the same basic rationale as the 1958 explanation:

    "The Society does not endorse any of the modern medical uses of blood, such as the uses of blood in connection with inoculations. Inoculation is, however, a virtually unavoidable circumstance in some segments of society, and so we leave it up to the conscience of the individual to determine whether to submit to inoculation with a serum containing blood fractions for the purpose of building up antibodies to fight against disease. If a person did this, he may derive comfort under the circumstances from the fact that he is not directly eating blood, which is expressly forbidden in God?s Word. It is not used for food or to replace lost blood." (W64 11/15 p. 682)

    August 22, 1965

    The 1964 position is reiterated:

    "The fact that serums are prepared from blood makes them undesirable to Christians because of the Biblical law against the use of blood. However, since they do not involve the use of blood as a food to nourish the body, which the Bible directly forbids, their use is a matter that must be decided by each person according to his conscience." (G65 8/22 p. 18)

    June 1, 1974

    The 1964 position on serums is reiterated and further softened:

    "We believe that here the conscience of each Christian must decide. Some may feel that accepting such a serum does not constitute an act of disrespect for the sacredness of life and of God as the life Source, that it does not constitute a flouting of God's expressed will concerning the use of blood to feed the body." (W74 p.351)

    April 8, 1972

    Hemodilution is specifically condemned:

    "Men of science are constantly developing new methods for performing surgical operations. The Journal of the American Medical Association, dated November 15, 1971, described a procedure for open-heart surgery that employs "severe hemodilution." Early in the operation a large quantity of blood is drawn off into a plastic blood bag. Though the bag is left connected to the patient by a tube, the removed and stored blood is no longer circulating in the patient?s system. It is replaced with a plasma volume expander, which dilutes the blood remaining in the veins and which gradually dissipates during the operative procedure. Near the conclusion of the operation the blood storage bag is elevated, and the stored blood is reinfused into the patient??..These techniques are noteworthy to Christians, since they run counter to God?s Word. The Bible shows that blood is not to be taken out of a body, stored and then later reused. (G72 4/8 pp. 29,30)

    February 22, 1975

    The use of the clotting factors is still prohibited (G75 2/22 p. 30)

    June 15, 1978

    The position on serums is softened even further: The use of the clotting factors, RhoGAM, and other serums is now in the 'gray area' (W78 6/15 p. 31)

    June 22, 1982

    The original 1958 rationale for the allowance of some blood components is replaced. Blood components are now classified as either 'major' or 'minor.' (G82 6/22 pp. 25-27) This creates the following divisions:

    ALLOWED: Albumin, Immune globulins, serums, Factors VIII and IV and RhoGAM.

    FORBIDDEN: Red Cells, White Cells, Plasma, and Platelets.

    Intraoperative collection and hemodilution are "objectionable."

    March 22, 1983

    Hemodilution is now mentioned favorably:

    "It is with this in mind, and not just to honor the requests of Jehovah's Witnesses, that Denton Cooley [of Houston, Texas] has performed open-heart operations now for over seven years, limiting transfusions wherever possible by substituting hemodilution, diluting the patient's blood with a glucose and heparin solution. If this method has given excellent results since then . . . one wonders why it has not been extended to present-day surgery." (G83 3/22 p.16)

    May 15, 1984

    Bone marrow transplants are now a matter of conscience. (W84 5/15 p. 31)

    March 1, 1989

    The earlier positions on cell scavenging and hemodilution are reversed. These two forms of autologous transfusion are now permitted. (W89 3/1 pp. 30,31)

    June 1, 1990

    The 1982 rationale for the allowance of some blood components is replaced. Blood components are now divided on the basis of transference across the placental barrier. The same divisions remain. (W90 6/1 pp. 30,31)

    June 15, 2000

    The 1990 rationale for the allowance of some blood components is replaced. Blood components are now classified as either "primary" or "secondary." This creates the following divisions: (W00 6/15 pp. 29-31)

    ALLOWED: Anything derived from a "primary" component including hemoglobin solutions

    FORBIDDEN: Intact Red cells, Intact White cells, Intact Platelets and Whole plasma.
  • JustTickledPink
    JustTickledPink

    I think what I have issue with is YOUR MEDICAL INFORMATION IS CONFIDENTIAL... it should be up to you and your Doctor what medicine you take, what treatmenst you take, etc.... I have a best friend whose husband has cancer and I don't know the specific names of the drugs he is on, all I know is he is getting treated for it.

    I think it's illogical that people butt into your CONFIDENTIAL medical history.

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