by mommy 58 Replies latest jw friends
Wendy--
Remember, bravery is nothing more than facing up to what it is we are afraid of. Cowardice is running from it. I think your post, and the thoughts you put out for the world to see, definitely puts you into the Brave Soul column.
Julie, who is rather discerning about who gets Brave Soul status
Wendy,
I am sorry circumstances in your life have you at this point today. The bravery spoken of here is agreed upon by me. Yes you are.
I differ with your opinon, but respect that you have one and have stated it so clearly. I would be happy to discuss my views, AWAY from this board. It is not a request , just an invitation.
I hope some peace comes to you and your family today
Stephen
Ohh I feel the love
Thanks you all, this means so much to me. I appreciate the concerns of my child, I don't mention it much as you can tell, not many know. I honestly do not want my thoughts on god clouded by this, as RCat mentioned. I loved and worshipped a god, for years after I found out she was ill.
I feel if this was not even a part of my life I would have the same thoughts. My child is not the only child in this world. There are many children and families that go through this, and still many to go through this.
If we are gods children, he should not allow this. Because as a parent who professes love for her children, I couldn't imagine doing this. I can't imagine leaving some, and taking others.
I was a christian, I know and have taught many of the things we are to tell non-believers. It is not sufficient any longer in my mind. These answers, "He will allow those who allow him" "He is there you just have to ask" and on and on we go. Well my question is what of those who asked? What of those who gave everything, and still do not "meet up to expectations"
There has been many discussions on this board about athesist and agnostic thinking. But IMO they are thinking, and christians rely on their "feelings" It is ok if they are happy, I hate the thought that so many are miserable. But many christians take their own life, because they cannot live up to a mold that others put on them. What they shoud be what they should accomplish. If we as a society concentrate on our strengths and not our weakness, we can accomplish much.
Thanks again for posting
wendy
In a controversy the instant we feel anger, we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.
wendy,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts about your change in beliefs with all of us. I did notice in another thread about a week or two ago that you said that you no longer believe in God. I was having a conversation with zev, and pointed it out to him and metioned that I wondered what changed your beliefs. I figured you would explain the way you feel sooner or later, so I never asked you what your thoughts were, and hey, I was right for a change! I agree 100% with you when you say that non-believers are loving and caring people JUST AS believers are. I know people who are athiests in my life who are more loving and less judemental than christians that I know are. My view is that people are people, and all share the same feelings. We all have the same emotions no matter what. You know as well as I do that being raised JWs, we thought that athiests were possessed by satan or something. I actually was afraid to be around athiests when I was younger. (20's is "younger" for me) I expected thier eyes to turn red and that they'd grow horns and a tail, and suddenly start sporting the ole pitchfork if I was alone in the same room with one of them. It didn't take me long to see reality. Reality is there are good people in this world, no matter if they believe in God or not. I think NO differently about you than I always have.
you said:
I have to add a disclaimer here. I do not want my views clouded by the fate of my child. I know what will happen with her. I have accepted this. My life is different, I admit. Do not feel sorry for me. Or ignore my thoughts because of this.
You can tell people not to feel sorry for you, but people who care are going to feel sorry anyway. Knowing you only from here, and not in person, I KNOW you would feel sorry for anyone who is going through the kind of intense pain that you are. (About your daughter, not about you're not believing in God.) And that's only one of the things that I liked about you since first meeting you on this DB. Feeling sorry for another person that you care about, and who you know is hurting badly is not a bad thing. Feeling sorry is having and feeling sympathy. Is that bad? And I don't think we could ingnore your thoughts if we all tried!
I love ya, wendy.
peace,
somebody
edited for my damn spelling mistakes again!
Jst2laws,
You said:
: Even the most righteous believer of God would tend to quote Abraham: “Is the Judge of all the earth not going to do what is right?” (Gen 18:25)
I want you to read and re-read and re-read that sentence, because there is much to be learned from it.
WHY did a paltry human like Abraham have to ASK God to for HIM do what was RIGHT? Read the whole 18th chapter. Abraham asked God that question a BUNCH of times. Why? Why didn't God know what was "right" in the first place? HE set up the rules about "right" and "wrong" and now we have a human begging him to play by rules that a human KNEW was right, yet God didn't seem to get it until he was persuaded to do so by Abraham.
JanH and I have both written essays on this matter, because it is a very serious matter. That chapter you cited clearly implies that "right" exists OUTSIDE of the realm of God as a standard HE must reach. God either declares by divine fiat what is "right" or he refers to an outside reference of "right" that he is beholden to. This 18th chapter of Genesis proves that Abraham himself KNEW the standard and humbly coaxed God into following that standard. It can be no other way. Why? Because God relented to Abraham that's why. Abraham cut a deal with God over the issue of "what is right."
Therefore God cuts deals over what is right and what is wrong and is just as clueless as the rest of us. The Bible God is, anyway.
If Abraham was right, then God is NOT the standard of ALL right and wrong: there is a standard outside of him that he should and hopefully must live up to. If Abraham was wrong, that whole episode is just another uninspired story.
Farkel
Farkel
That has got to be the biggest bunch of bull crap that I've heard come out of your mouth yet. I think maybe you've topped yourself, sure nuff. Why in sheol anyone on this board respects your reasonings is beyond me. You are obviously in a stupor. Maybe your fellow apostates are impressed and fooled by the size of your vocabulary. For example, maybe fancy little words like "paltry" and "fiat" is what gives them goose bumps. Do they give YOU goose bumps? They don't me!
Friday
Yadirf,
Farkel's reasoning makes sense to me, and I'm still a Bible-lover. Farkel's use of words doesn't sway my thought, it's the reasoning itself.
Yadirf, have you read Genesis 18 lately? If Jehovah knew what was right, why did he need to be coaxed into doing it? Answer that question.
P.S., you too use fancy words like "Sheol" and "stupor". So size of vocabulary is not the issue, if you expect readers to understand those words why shouldn't they be able to discern the meaning of "paltry" and "fiat"?
GopherEven if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there.
Will Rogers (1879-1935)
Wendy:
I just read your post. I'm not on here much anymore so there is so much that I miss. I miss you and the old gang terribly and I am very sorry to hear about your little girl. My heart goes out to you and her and your family.
I don't think there is a thinking person that does not have to deal with the concept of God. Anyone who blindly accepts or denies God without at least contemplating the possibility of both sides (either he exists or doesn't) is very shallow indeed. I know that you are not a shallow person so I know that you are familiar with both sides. That means that the faithful at times must face their doubts and the doubtful at times have moments of belief.
We all get around to asking those difficult questions that you posted here and we get to experience the frustration and anger and fear that goes with them.
If God is who He says He is then his existence is not dependent on our belief in him and his purpose will be served regardless of our position on this matter. In our rationalizations about the existence of God we sometimes take the short sighted view that this life is all there is. We are reminded in 1 Cor 15:19: "If for this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied." NSRV
Can we be good, caring people without believing in God? Certainly. Is that proof that He does not exist? No. Belief in His existence is not a requirement of His existence. Can his influence be upon us even if we deny him. That should be evident as well. I think it is very significant that neither His existence nor His non-existence can be proven. If God is to be found, He will be found with your heart and not your mind. I believe that in the end his purpose toward all of us will be served. Doubt and faith seem to play an equal part in this drama.
Take care of yourself, Wendy. It's good to see you too, Cat! and Iano too.
Gopher
Who do you think you're fooling, Gopher. Not ME I hope. All you're doing is taking up for your pal, Farkel; the same as he would do for you. You two are chums that think alike because you ARE alike. I've watched the way you people operate now for well over a year, and I can see completely through you.
What you both really need to do is get up off your lazy butts and do something useful, something other than stare at a computer screen reading each others nonscense.
Friday
