by fairchild 71 Replies latest jw friends
Nos:
The twelve were just his most intimate disciples. He's alledged to have had many thousands more.
Narkissos writes: There's no shame in not having an answer to any question --
I wholeheartedly concur. Life is full of mystery. Unfortunately some religions play on our desire for an explanation. I wonder how we would feel if we successfully answered all the "why?"'s of life?
Little Toe - I agree with you and am also comfortable with not having answers. How the organized religions play on the need to have everything explained! They then profer the most ludicrous verse-by-verse explanations only to later "refine" them and ultimately toss out the explanations altogether. Look at the myriad of supposedly Biblical interpretations of that psychotic book of Revelation - with each one geared towards specific individuals and events in the current age. Jws have theirs, 7th-Day Adventists have theirs and a look at any Christian book store shows no end to these peculiarly egocentric anaylses. Meanwhile, all the earlier interpretations are nicely forgotten. Given me respectful "not knowing" any day over the neurotic need to understand exactly what a Biblical writer meant when he had his psychotic visions.
I think most people would say a generation is 80 years - hell even the bible says that a mans days are 3 score and 10 and if special mightiness 4 score = 80 years - so do the math - 1914 + 80 = 1994 - that is why they shat themselves and changed evrything. The average lifespan in very advanced countries eg the USA is 77 years
After reading all the posts once more, and checking out some links, I think it is logical to assume that 'this generation' was meant to be only the generation of Jesus, and not some future generation. I still don't believe that Jesus might have been wrong and would rather believe that people in our day are just not understanding it right. I also don't know what to think about things written in the NT being influenced by, or written toward what was already written in the OT. This is a thought and a point to reasearch for another day. It is easy to take a scripture - in this case 'this generation'- and give it some intricate, different meaning. With the bible not being 100% clear all the time, it is an easy thing to do. But when we go back to the source we should see that there was nothing mysterious about that scripture. Point taken.
I have decided to stop my study and to stop going to the meetings. I still have not told them and was being a coward today. I lingered at work until 7pm so that I would be home too late to go to the book study. pretty bad, huh? However, I will have to tell them some time this week. Some advice here would be welcome. 'This generation' was what I needed in order to convince myself, but would it be appropriate to bring that up? Is it really up to me to burst such a huge bubble? I have read on this site about JW's not being happy, not living in a 'spiritual paradise' and such, but have to admit that many of the JW I know ARE happy. It is important to be happy with what you do. Actually, it might be one of the most important things in life. Telling a zealous JW that 607BCE was just another day where the sun came up and went under, or that 'this generation' was clearly not meant to be dragged to our century, would be like throwing a bucket of water over Beethoven's piano. I know what some of you might be thinking. You probably think that we do a JW a favor by telling them 'the truth', just like they think they are doing US a favor by 'telling us the truth'. Personally, I don't feel I am in the right place to plant such seeds in someone's heart.
I clearly remember saying to a JW once, "Don't tell me about the truth, I am happy now and I want to keep it that way", but they told me anyway. It seems every time I go to the meetings more often, my sense of happiness and my bond with God start to dwindle. There used to be a time when I really did feel close to God, but not today. I was told to 'study some more' after I talked to an elder about that. 'Study some more' is exactly what I did. In the worship book as well as on this site. Something tells me that I will find the true God amongst the many bits of information on this site before I find it in the worship book. I know it is a rude thing to say, but it is just the way I feel.
Hey fairchild, it sounds like you are on the cusp of making an important decision. I hesitate to give advice because so many factors need to be taken into account when deciding to discontinue one's involvement with the JWs. Having said that, and given your own expressed sensitivity to how you might be viewed by the JWs, I'd recommend the slow, fading exit, because JWs sadly would not reciprocate any courtesy you might extend in explaining your situation. You don't need to spell everything out to the JWs; that's what I call playing "the explain game"in which the more you explain, the more puzzled the JWs look and the more deeply anxious you're likely to become and the only outcome is a variation on being rejected and condemned.
Always remember that you are an adult and if you chose to stop going to meetings, that is your business. Little by little, as more time passes and you learn to relax the need to have everything crystal clear in the doctrine department, you'll also become clearer about what you want to do in your life. It will be a painful process, whichever way you decide to go; view the pain - which will pass - as necessary to your personal growth. I always remember what an old colleague said to me a few years ago when I faced "decision time". He wrote: "Which ever path you take, whether to go or stay, there will be pain. You have to allow yourself the time to weigh up which course is going to be better for you in the longer term. No one can decide for you but your real friends will be able to support you in that decision." Fairchild, I wish you well.
Fair,
I have decided to stop my study and to stop going to the meetings.
You can wait until you get the whole picture.
but have to admit that many of the JW I know ARE happy.
i beleive you
You probably think that we do a JW a favor by telling them 'the truth',
i dont neccesarily think so
Something tells me that I will find the true God amongst the many bits of information on this site before I find it in the worship book.
But you dont HAVE to tell jw about the truth when you finally find it, specially if you dont want to loose your good jw friends real fast.
You dont go around telling children that Santa does not exist. Even if they ask you, it may seem apropriate to change the subject.. Sooner or later they will find out...
As long as you dont complaint and you are willing to keep by their rules for the sake of peace and "friendship" it may be ok to be a jw
ALL human org or groups have rules written or tacit, many faults and dishonest members.
Most religions i have known are economic enterprises, have a single powerfull local "leader" who lives like a rich, beleive stupid doctrines etc etc what's new? if i HAVE to make a decision i would rather be a jw. .
In fact most "learned" xjw never join any other religion, ask them why?
They know too much, they are usully happy but missing an eutopia..
One: are you suggesting that she should remain studying with JW's? Don't you consider it a destructive false religion? For God's sake, people DIE from following the society's rules. They shun people who are disfellowshiped like they are useless pieces of shit. What exactly are you saying here?
Hi Author Fairchild!
I haven't read all the posts here, so forgive me if this is just repeated information.
One link I appreciated was this one.
http://www.thingstocome.org/whatgen.htm
Also, it is helpful to know that how the word "generation", Jesus' native tongue, allows for the same expanse in meaning as the Greek, to include the broader family/race.
My own conclusion has been that Jesus spoke the word 'generation', the word the Father intended to be said and recorded, even if it was not understood (even by Jesus at that time). Consider John 8:28: So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. Also, 2 Pet 1:20: Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.]
BTW, when I read the list of all the plagues, wars, rumors of war, pestilences, persecutions, etc, that Jesus said would come... those don't simply happen overnight. The passage, for me, seems to require an understanding that time is required; especially as the gospel is to be preached to the ends of the earth before the end comes. Although, I believe some of the predictions did occur in 70 AD. So some of the preterist view works for me.
Here's another thing to ponder. Jesus stopped a quotation of Isaiah in midverse when he spoke at a synagogue, and said "it had been fulfilled in their presence".
LK 4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to release the oppressed,
LK 4:19 to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor.
...But the quote in Isaiah 61:1-2a doesn't 'finish' there; was that part not fulfilled? The verse actually continues with:
and the day of vengeance of our God,
to comfort all who mourn,
ISA 61:3 and provide for those who grieve in Zion--
to bestow on them a crown of beauty
instead of ashes,
the oil of gladness
instead of mourning,
and a garment of praise
instead of a spirit of despair.
So... was the whole passage fulfilled, or just the portion? It's an interesting question, perhaps.
....Anyway, just more stuff for you to mull over!
bebu
(steve2) I'd recommend the slow, fading exit,
That might be a hard thing to do. Whenever I miss a meeting, someone calls to ask what's up. They are all very nice, and I do think their concern is genuine. It seems I can't hide though, wich I could. I probably owe it to them to just tell them that I am not planning on going to the meetings anymore. I respect their choice to serve Jehovah, but why do I have a feeling that they won't respect my choice not to be a part of their organization anymore? There doesn't seem to be an easy 'fading' way out. I've read about people on this site who faded and always wondered how exactly they did it.
Fairchild, I wish you well.
Thank you very much
(one) But you dont HAVE to tell jw about the truth when you finally find it, specially if you dont want to loose your good jw friends real fast.
True. but I wonder if there is such thing as JW friends. Don't get me wrong, a few of my dearest friends are JW's. Yet, should I be a baptized witness and then DF'ed, they would most likely not talk to me again. You know what they say about a good friend. A friend will help you move, a true friend will help you move a body. You know what I mean? Among JW's friendships can stand or fall with someone's status within the organization. I understand that Jehovah comes first and it deserves my true admiration, but where lies the inter- human aspect in all this? Friends and family get broken up over people opposing the WTS and such, yet according to the bible, a family is extremely important. Anyway, in the end, I probably will loose my JW friends as I will be considered bad association.
As long as you dont complaint and you are willing to keep by their rules for the sake of peace and "friendship" it may be ok to be a jw
Is there really a point in this? Being a JW is a choice which influences your whole life. The only way to be a 'happy' JW is to concur with the WTS 100%, with heart and mind. Someone who is or becomes a JW for any other reason will feel a burden, as the religion demands a whole lot of time as well as a certain mindset.
Again, don't get me wrong. I value friendship very deeply. It is not because I am going to stop attending the meetings that my feeling of friendship for my JW friends will diminish, but I am not willing to be a JW just so that their feeling of friendship toward me would not diminish.
(Getbusyliving) They shun people who are disfellowshiped like they are useless pieces of shit.
Exactly. What a sad thing.
..(Bebu)..Anyway, just more stuff for you to mull over!
OOHH you got THAT right! Thank you for stopping in!
FC:
Forgive me, I haven't read all your posts, so I'll make some general comments aimed at people in your kind of situation.
If you have given up most of your old friends, during the process of studying, re-establish contact. Make a new circle of friends with common interests and work colleagues, etc. The social side of life is important, and the JW's tend to try to completely replace that so taht you become dependant on them.
Leave the JW's as soon as you feel comfortable to do so. You don't owe them anything, really. You actually owe it to yourself to have a life!
One:
Most religions i have known are economic enterprises, have a single powerfull local "leader" who lives like a rich, beleive stupid doctrines etc etc what's new?
Interesting observation. Is that an inside-out view, or did you read it some place? I ask because it's in direct contrast with most of my experience. I'm not saying that there aren't example such as you bring to our attention, however, it sounds like hyperbole.
if i HAVE to make a decision i would rather be a jw.
REALLY??
You just shot all of your arguments in that single comment!
Did we learn nothing at all???
In fact most "learned" xjw never join any other religion, ask them why?
I'll concede that, though many retain a "spiritual" side, and some join or dabble with religion. Being burnt by the WTS does leave a nasty after-taste in most mouths, though, so I suspect this is also a factor.
They know too much, they are usully happy but missing an eutopia..
Interesting explanation for their actions, as well as an interesting interpretation of their current circumstances. I would suggest that most "learned xjw" are perfectly happy with their lives, making the most of it, in fact!
I guess what I am suggesting is that life and people doesn't really tend to tolerate broad pigeon-holes. It's more complex than that
