I called their media relations office to ask them, but the gentleman on the line referred me to the same excerpts from Awake publications that didn't provide an answer.
I think the problem is that..as usual they never consulted the bible.
The answer is very clear...Matt 5:27,28
You heard that it was said,You must not commit adultery but I say to you that everyone who keeps looking at a woman (porn sites) so as to have a passion for her has already commited adultery with her in his heart.....CASE CLOSED
The WT always said "we do not go beyond the things written" How much clearer could it be.Divorce granted.
I believe fornication or porneia is currently defined has to include the "improper" use of at least one set of genitalia and two individuals/bodies. Thus an individual masturbating doesn't count, adultery does count, bestiality counts, etc. Phone sex seems to be a stretch, but I think did see somewhere that that would be considered porneia.
Glofishy,
I believe that you are quite close here. One of the last elders meetings with the CO (approx. 4 years ago) discussed this issue. Viewing pornography is viewed in a dim light but I doubt if anyone would be disfellowshipped for this alone. However, if when viewing pornography, the person masterbated, then this would not be considered 'porneia' but would be considered gross 'uncleanness' and therefore could lead to disfellowshipping.
It is fairly new (and not published for the rank and file) that phone sex, that is, masturbating while talking sexually to a person on the phone is now grounds for DFing. It was a directive to the elders within the last 18 months if I can believe the 2 elders who told me that a letter had been sent saying that it was porneia. I don't have a copy of the letter. Has anyone else heard this?
Imagine this from the same people that told JWs that bestiality and homosexuality were not porneia or grounds for a scriptural divorce.
Well I'm not being told much anymore since I'm "spiritually weak" nowadays but even back 3 yrs ago, when I was still a MS, the CO told us and the elders that 1st: if any of us were addicted to internet porn we were to immediately confess it to the elder body. Yeah right.
2nd and sorta related to what you said: That CO said outright that if we had the problem we'd be immediately removed from our positions even if we were repentant. He said that one could argue that it technically wasn't fornication, but it could still have the same impact of a betrayal on wifes. So I think its totally believable that they've now made it even more taboo and upped the sanctions to df'ing.
I think the real reason for this is to further demonize the Net to the R&F. If young brother zealous is afraid to look for porn online, he sure isn't going to be looking for apostate sites.
Blondie wrote:
It is fairly new (and not published for the rank and file) that phone sex, that is, masturbating while talking sexually to a person on the phone is now grounds for DFing. It was a directive to the elders within the last 18 months if I can believe the 2 elders who told me that a letter had been sent saying that it was porneia. I don't have a copy of the letter. Has anyone else heard this?
At the elders and MS' meeting for the CO visits in (if memory serves) the spring of '01, written direction (i.e. not a letter, but still an official statement) was read that phone sex constituted "uncleanness": not porneia, but still a disfellowshipping offense.
I wouldn't know about any change within the last 18 months, as it's been almost that long since I left (and longer since I was an MS).
Thanks for the clarification, Euph. Either way, you can be DF'd. So many elders don't get their directives straight when they pass it on. I guess the DFing part was most important.
In my time, up to 7 years ago, the understanding was as is written in this quote
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w0011/1p.8AGodlyViewofMoralCleanness***
6
What is meant by the word "fornication"? It comes from the Greek word por·nei´a, which is sometimes used to apply to sexual relations between unmarried people. (1 Corinthians 6:9) Elsewhere, such as at Matthew 5:32 and Matthew 19:9, the term is broader in meaning and refers additionally to adultery, incest, and bestiality. Other sexual practices between individuals not married to each other, such as oral and anal sex and the sexual manipulation of another person?s genitalia, can also be designated as por·nei´a. All such practices are condemned?either explicitly or by implication?in God?s Word.?Leviticus 20:10, 13, 15, 16; Romans 1:24, 26, 27, 32
.to be Pornea, there had to be another person involved, and "manipulation of genitalia for pleasure".. I would not be surprised if that has changed, as people have written. However, if the info has never been given to the r & f , how can they be held liable?
Bluesbrother, how many times have you seen it in the publications that if a man and a woman stay overnight together under the same roof without a proper chaperone, that they can be DF'd for sexual immorality? But it is in the elder's manual.
It is in a 1968 Awake or WT but anything recent....
