by blindfool 29 Replies latest jw friends
You need to re-read your History. America was ISOLATIONIST, and wanted nothing to do with World War. They only entered officially when attacked! Although as I mentioned America did lend assistance before actually declaring war to the side of the cause it felt was more "right", or maybe I should say was in it's best interest.The people of America were very much like the JW's in not wanting to get involved- whether you agree or not that's how it was.
War is Hell!
u/d
OK, so where would we be today, if American and her allies had not fought Hitler? What if they had sat back and remained "neutral"? What would have happened?? Think you and I would be sitting here today??
Yes we would still be sitting here...Europe might have been screwed though. I agree with Bradley and u/d, and I can understand how a Christian would want to remain neutral in expectation of God's intervention. I don't necessarily agree with it myself, although I am generally against war (I like Revolutions though!) From what I know of Christianity, it does not mix with patriotism AT ALL, which is ironic since it seems to go hand in hand in this country.
They are sure to act upon the directioin to: "Remove The Evil One From Among Yourselfs". so the sure must hate evil. Bla Bla Bla
So again I rest my case that if "God" was so concerned with all of this He would certainly give direction, which He seems to have given.
He has? Where exactly has He given direction?
The governments of the earth are all doing what they want, and if you think they are all the result of "good" peoples efforts on the battlefield you are seriously NAIVE.
I never said that all wars were justified; I think the Vietnam war was horseshit, and ditto for the War that's going on in Iraq right now....however, Adolf Hitler is another story. He was insane, he was intent on conquering the world and he very well could have succeeded, had he not been stopped. In that case, going to war is most certainly justifiable. If a violent mad man was intent on capturing you and your family, strip you of your home, your possessions and had already murdered your Jewish neighbour, would you be justified in killing him to prevent him causing any more destruction? In my opinion: Yes.
Where? the example of Christ.
And ONCE AGAIN I notice how you pick and choose which wars YOU FEEL are worthy of fighting and which are not.
What if I "THINK" or "FEEL" the Iraq war is dandy, what then- are we gonna go to war over that? Remember almost every war has adherents on both sides who are SURE their cause is righteous. Funny how you "know" Hitler was crazy, so that make all Germans nutz (nutzies ha ha, i made a funny).? But Stalin wasn't nuts because he was our allie- he only became nuts when we didn't have a common enemy any longer?
Like I stated previously if you FEEL strongly enough for a cause than go fight for it! Just don't drag me along because YOU believe in it!
Conversely I would never work AGAINST the cause. Unless I FELT OR THOUGHT it was wrongu/d
Funny how you "know" Hitler was crazy, so that make all Germans nutz (nutzies ha ha, i made a funny).?
What planet are you on? Number one: Hilter WAS insane and only a fool would question that. And two: I never said all Germans were nuts.......I have no idea where you got that one from.
Like I stated previously if you FEEL strongly enough for a cause than go fight for it! Just don't drag me along because YOU believe in it!
I never said you had to fight. What I said was: Witnesses bash those that died during WWII fighting the Third Reich. These people died so that you and I could live in a free country and enjoy freedom of religion. If they don't want to fight, that's up to them, but they should at least respect those that did die.
It is a proven fact that most politicians and especially the "higher ups", presidents, kings, dictators etc usually have to one dgree or another what could be termed "mental illness" or "level of insanity" as some would define it. It's necessary for the job- what "normal" person would want to rule?
The reason for assuming most Germans are "nuts" was merely rhetorical due to the fact that almost the entire German nation followed Hitler and did his bidding.
Another point. (And I could be mistaken) I don't recall the Dub's "bashing" anyone for battling the "forces of evil" in the World Wars, they rather chose not to support it. They even claim in their so-called letter sent to Hitler from the WTS that he would be destroyed and not prevail, so they must have had some faith in the "powers that be" to even make such a statement. Of course, they believe "God" used the allies to this end- whatever.
Even as a Dub I have never nor will ever DISRESPECT those who have died- save for me my entire family is military, and they're good people.
Respectfully
u/d
I don't recall the Dub's "bashing" anyone for battling the "forces of evil" in the World WarsYou're not eh? Well maybe you should try reading some of their literature then..................
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kn34 p. 3 Why Is Life So Full of Problems? ***During wars, Catholics kill Catholics, Protestants kill Protestants?by the millions
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g93 4/22 p. 4 Religion?s Role in Man?s Wars ***professed Christians often go to war against members of their own faith. Thus, Catholics kill Catholics on battlefields
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g81 6/22 p. 18 Something Was Missing from My Jewish Heritage ***"In times of war," he answered, "Catholics kill Catholics, Protestants kill Protestants, and Jews kill Jews.
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yb98 p. 18 Jehovah?s Witnesses?1998 Yearbook Report ***The Liberian people know that during the years of war, it has been only Jehovah?s Witnesses who have proved to be true messengers of godly peace. While thousands of members of other religions joined armed factions and carried weapons of war, Jehovah?s people were seen everywhere, Bibles in hand, sharing messages of godly peace with war-weary Liberians.
*** g95 5/8 p. 14 It?s No Secret Anymore ***Catholic and Orthodox believers, while claiming to be Christian, have failed to live up to the loving example of Christ Jesus. Only Jehovah?s Witnesses have maintained their neutrality and refused to learn or practice war anymore. And that is no secret
*** g95 11/8 p. 30 From Our Readers *** Only Witnesses Neutral? Your May 8, 1995, issue ("It?s No Secret Anymore") stated: "Only Jehovah?s Witnesses have maintained their neutrality and refused to learn or practice war anymore." In World War II, of the 11,996 men who refused to fight, only 940 were Jehovah?s Witnesses. I was a conscientious objector myself. The word "only" in your statement was used to paint a false picture that only Jehovah?s Witnesses held to this belief.P. B., United States
We realize that some individuals have refused to participate in war, and we have acknowledged this in our publications. (See "Awake!" of September 8, 1987, page 7.) However, the statement in question specifically referred to the failure of "Catholic and Orthodox believers" to maintain neutrality in Rwanda, Liberia, the Balkans, and other places of recent conflict. Among religious organizations, only Jehovah?s Witnesses have taken a consistently neutral stand.?ED.*** g94 10/22 p. 7 True Christians and War ***the religions of the world continue to take sides in war. Catholics keep on killing Catholics, and those of other religions kill either people of their own faith or members of other churches*** g98 10/22 p. 27 The Catholic Church and the Holocaust ***More than 50 years after the terrible tragedy of the Shoah, or Holocaust, the Catholic Church has not yet managed to come to terms with its own history?one of ambiguity and silences, to say the least. But there are some who have never had to take any such step. Jehovah?s Witnesses, a religious minority cruelly persecuted by the Nazis, did not stoop to compromise. As has been increasingly clear in recent times, in contrast with church members, the Witnesses denounced Nazi brutality. And it was not just as individuals that they did so. Their official spokesmen and publications also did. (The above statement is really pathetic when you read the letter that Rutherford sent to Hitler telling him that the Witnesses "stand for the same high moral principals as the Third Reich" and denounced the "greedy Jews" as being a major thorn in his side.)*** g95 8/22 pp. 14-15 Why the Churches Kept Silent ***True, a few courageous individuals from the Catholic, Protestant, and various other religions stood up against the Nazi State. But even as some of them paid with their lives, their spiritual leaders, who claimed to serve God, were serving as puppets of the Third Reich. There was, however, one voice that consistently spoke out. Though the news media, by and large, overlooked the churches as major players in the Nazi drama, Jehovah?s Witnesses felt compelled to expose the treachery and hypocrisy of the clergy, with details of their behind-the-scenes collusion. In the pages of the forerunner of this magazine as well as other publications throughout the 1930?s and 1940?s, they printed strong indictments of religious organizations that became Nazism?s handmaidens.Identifying Christ?s True FollowersJehovah?s Witnesses are totally different from the religions of the world. Being no part of the world, they take no part in the wars of the nations.
You're way off from my thoughts!
Every reference you provided referred to the actions (which are true and happened) of RELIGIONS.
There was no attack on the Allies for fighting the Axis. What you're doing is called "stretching".
Interesting that the Dubs are not the only ones who point to this hypocritical behaviour of the worlds churches. Many secular authorities and commentators have made the same observation. Many of the churches even admit it wasn't their best moment and Christ would very likely be less than impressed with what they did.
So I guess it leaves me wondering- How do you feel if someone (individual) or and entitiy (organization) is neutral? Isn't the Red Cross neutral? Aren't the loveable Swiss neutral?
Just wonderin...
u/d
So I guess it leaves me wondering- How do you feel if someone (individual) or and entitiy (organization) is neutral? Isn't the Red Cross neutral? Aren't the loveable Swiss neutral?
I have no problem with an individual or organization being NEUTRAL, but I have a major problem when the WTS then goes and denounces those who HAVE gone to fight. The reason being: we live in a free country and we enjoy freedom of religion. If some nutcase comes along and threatens that, then someone needs to fight back. The Witnesses today enjoy freedom of religion and they use it to the max, especially when they have to go to court. Were they willing to fight for that freedom of religion? No they weren't, but they continuously speak negatively about those that did go and fight for them. Hundreds of thousands of soldier died so that the Witnesses and others could enjoy living in a free country and have freedom of religion. They should show some respect towards those that died, but they don't.
If you can't see that, then that's your problem........I really have no interest at all in furthering this discussion with you, as we obviously view the situation very differently.
