by Norm 71 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Green,
If you knew that your neighbor was continually raping a child and you did nothing about it you would also be held responsible for the crime. Just because a theoretical "God" might not directly cause suffering, the fact that he stands back and does nothing in his power to prevent suffering is itself despicable.
One of the reasons why I do not buy into the God hypothesis.
B.
Sabrina said:
: Why is it that on the one hand some people blame or ridicule God for events such as the recent Tsunami and then on the other if someone should say such an event is directly caused by God those same people turn around and degrade the person for claiming such a ridiculous thing. You all like to eat your cake and have it too I see. Oh well, no matter.
I think you're completely misunderstanding just which people say what. The people who blame or ridicule God for such events do so because they don't believe he exists. It's a completely different group of people who deride those who claim that God causes such events, because such people are believers and want to defend their God. If you have examples of people who do what you claim, then let's see them. If you can produce them, then such people deserve to be mocked.
AlanF
Logan,
So do you think that God should stop all crimes and all wars and what? Treat mankind like he's a dog or something too stupid to be responsible for his own actions? Either we are human and responsible for what we do or we are not. Would you really prefer a world where God tells you what you can do and what you can't? Come on. We all treasure our freedom to do what we will but when some bastard acts out his own evils should we then blame God for not keeping him in line? Whose scale should we use to determine a wrong? Some people think adultery is wrong, should God stop adultery?
What we do we do. We are are own man, Logan.
Sabrina
If He is not, why is He not?Why should he be? Please, answer me this: why should God be the cause of everything that happens?
I never said he should be. I just said you can't avoid the question.
You answered he shouldn't be. All right. But to the "why?", you just answered by one example (rape). Which I would translate in more abstract terms: "Because there are other wills involved." Do I interpret you correctly?
Green,
And what about natural disasters? Disease? Parasites? All the other "evil" things which humans have no control over? Why would God set up a world like that?
Bradley...just waiting for "Adam and Eve caused it" to come out. If so, I will refrain from answering as you obviously would then be completely steeped in myth and legend.
AlanF:
people who blame or ridicule God for such events do so because they don't believe he exists. It's a completely different group of people who deride those who claim that God causes such events, because such people are believers and want to defend their God.
I would put it somewhat differently:
- only a believer can blame God (although this seldom happens);
- an unbeliever can only ridicule the idea of God;
- the phrase "a natural catastrophe is an act of God" can be derided by both believers and unbelievers, for different reasons.
Narkissos,
I never said he should be. I just said you can't avoid the question.
Okay.
You answered he shouldn't be. All right. But to the "why?", you just answered by one example (rape). Which I would translate in more abstract terms: "Because there are other wills involved." Do I interpret you correctly?
Yes, if I am understanding your statement.
AlanF,
The people who blame or ridicule God for such events do so because they don't believe he exists.
Do agnostics ridicule God? Yes, I think some do.
It's a completely different group of people who deride those who claim that God causes such events, because such people are believers and want to defend their God.
No, that is not always the case. Those that ridicule claims of God's acts are not always people who are as you say, "believers and want to defend their God." Many of them are simply non-believers who are attempting to ridicule what in their view is a ridiculous statement. You know this already.
Sabrina
You answered he shouldn't be. All right. But to the "why?", you just answered by one example (rape). Which I would translate in more abstract terms: "Because there are other wills involved." Do I interpret you correctly?Yes, if I am understanding your statement.
OK. This in turn calls for a number of questions:
1. Is that limitation (to God's being the cause of events) the only one?
1.1. If so, what about natural catastrophes etc. (cf. Bradley's last post?)
2. Is that limitation absolute (God never has overruled any human will and never will?)
2.1. If not, how is the limitation limited?
3. Why does that limitation to God's causality exist in the first place?
Narkissos,
1. Is that limitation (to God's being the cause of events) the only one?
I spoke of no limitations that is your assumption. There are no limitations with God.
1.1. If so, what about natural catastrophes etc. (cf. Bradley's last post?)
Time and unforseen occurrences befall both man and beast. Or should man, the more intelligent creation, be coddled when he refuses to live according to the nature of things and goes so far as to recklessly live on known faultlines and to allow his fellow to live in shabby houses prown to earthquake damage and he refuses the expense of Tsunami warning systems but not the expense of war? If we wish to live as free men we must be responsible. If though, we wish to live as children being told how to eat and walk and live then we should all be JWs or cats and dogs.
Additionally, it is ironic that man who fails to raise all his own children to be productive and honest citizens not because he is incapable but because he is unwilling to spend the time and money, should at the same time fault God for man's own ills. Man's glass house is not God's fault it is man's.
2. Is that limitation absolute (God never has overruled any human will and never will?)
Again, God has no limitations.
2.1. If not, how is the limitation limited?
Again, God has no limitations.
3. Why does that limitation to God's causality exist in the first place?
Please see the answer above.
Sabrina
Sabrina,
You stated several times:
"Again, God has no limitations."
This is very interesting.
Does this mean that God could have stopped 9/11 and the Tsunami disaster?
He obviously didn't, why didn't he?
Norm
