Stupid questions require stupid answers

by Norm 71 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Norm
    Norm

    Christians always tell us how loving, caring and just God is, how he never ?forgets? us etc. They also claim that God is omnipotent and everything that happens is his will and that it has a ?purpose?.

    Lets pay attention to what the Watchtower say next as we will come back to it later:

    ?*** w03 1/1 p. 4 Comfort for Those Who Suffer *** Comfort for Those Who Suffer However, claims that God is somehow an accomplice to suffering, that he is unable to prevent it, or that suffering is a mere figment of our imagination offer scant comfort to those who suffer. And more important, such beliefs are utterly at odds with the just, dynamic, and caring God who is revealed in the pages of the Bible. (Job 34:10, 12; Jeremiah 32:17; 1 John 4:8) What, then, does the Bible say about the reason why suffering has been permitted??

    Then the Watchtower starts to ?explain? God and suffering, let us see if it has any more merit then the ones that were dismissed above:

    *** w03 1/1 pp. 4-5 Comfort for Those Who Suffer *** How Did Suffering Begin?

    God did not create humans to suffer. On the contrary, he endowed the first human couple, Adam and Eve, with perfect minds and bodies, prepared a delightful garden to serve as their home, and assigned them meaningful, satisfying work. (Genesis 1:27, 28, 31; 2:8) However, their continued happiness depended on their recognizing God?s rulership and his right to decide what was good and what was bad. That divine prerogative was represented by a tree called ?the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.? (Genesis 2:17) Adam and Eve would demonstrate their subjection to God if they obeyed his command not to eat from that tree. Tragically, Adam and Eve failed to obey God. A rebellious spirit creature, later identified as Satan the Devil, convinced Eve that it was not in her best interests to obey God. In fact, God was supposedly depriving her of something highly desirable: independence, the right to choose for herself what was good and what was bad. Satan claimed that if she ate of the tree, ?her eyes were bound to be opened and she was bound to be like God, knowing good and bad.? (Genesis 3:1-6; Revelation 12:9) Seduced by the prospect of independence, Eve partook of the forbidden fruit, and Adam soon did the same. That same day, Adam and Eve began to experience the results of their rebellion. By rejecting divine rulership, they lost out on the protection and blessings that subjection to God had afforded them. God evicted them from

    Wow!, Now we finally got it. All the crap that happens to us humans, including the latest Tsunami disaster has its explanation in a woman and a talking snake in a garden a long time ago, yup, how can anyone ever miss that, huh? That really makes sense, eh? I mean who among us would want anything as awful as independence? Of course God seemed completely powerless to prevent all this highly irregular behavior perpetrated by his ?perfect? creation. He clearly was a powerless bystander helplessly watching his obviously very flawed creation screw up in a major way, plunging mankind into pain, suffering and misery. What is, caring, just and loving about that?

    Is the complete and utter nonsense presented above any less silly then the ?explanations? discussed further above? Isn?t the one who supposedly started all this indeed an accomplice to it? And the simple fact that suffering is still going on is of course excellent proof that God was indeed unable to prevent it, or didn?t care particularly about it perhaps.

    Just look at this question again:

    ?*** w03 1/1 p. 4 Comfort for Those Who Suffer *** Comfort for Those Who Suffer What, then, does the Bible say about the reason why suffering has been permitted??

    Think about this. Suffering was permitted! By whom? By God of course. Did he have to permit it? Yes, apparently he had to. If he permitted it to happen, he is of course responsible for it. Is there any good reasons to ?permit? people to suffer in all kinds of horrible ways? Of course there isn?t. Is it a sign that a person who ?permit? such horrific things care for us and love us? Of course it isn?t.

    But the ?explanation? gets far worse:

    ?*** w03 1/1 pp. 5-6 Comfort for Those Who Suffer *** Settling the Issue Someone may ask, ?Could God not have simply overlooked Adam and Eve?s sin?? No, because that would have further undermined respect for his authority, perhaps encouraging future rebellions and resulting in even greater suffering. (Ecclesiastes 8:11) In addition, condoning such disobedience would have made God a party to wrongdoing.

    This is of course complete nonsense; if God is omnipotent he can overlook whatever he wants. The idea that it would ?undermine his authority? is even sillier. An omni-whatever God wouldn?t even put himself in such a jam in the first place.

    ?*** w03 1/1 pp. 5-6 Comfort for Those Who Suffer *** Settling the Issue The Bible writer Moses reminds us: ?God?s works are perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; righteous and upright is he.? (Deuteronomy 32:4, footnote) To be true to himself, God had to allow Adam and Eve to suffer the consequences of their disobedience.

    Repeating such ass-kissing sucking up to drivel about how wonderful God is supposed to be doesn?t alter the facts that he seems to be a first class bungler. The Christians love to use the ?father/parents motif on God, but if any parent was so completely negligent with their children, the authorities would take their children away from them immediately.

    ?*** w03 1/1 pp. 5-6 Comfort for Those Who Suffer *** Settling the Issue Why did God not immediately destroy the first human couple along with Satan, the invisible instigator of their rebellion? He had the power to do so. Adam and Eve would not have produced offspring subject to a legacy of suffering and death. However, such a demonstration of divine power would not have proved the rightfulness of God?s authority over his intelligent creatures. Furthermore, had Adam and Eve died childless, that would have signaled the failure of God?s purpose to fill the earth with their perfect descendants. (Genesis 1:28) And ?God is not like men . . . Whatever he promises, he does; he speaks, and it is done.??Numbers 23:19, Today?s English Version.

    ?*** w03 1/1 pp. 5-6 Comfort for Those Who Suffer *** Settling the Issue In his perfect wisdom, Jehovah God decided to allow the rebellion to proceed for a limited time. The rebels would have ample opportunity to experience the effects of independence from God. History would demonstrate beyond doubt mankind?s need for divine guidance and the superiority of God?s rule over man?s or Satan?s. At the same time, God took steps to ensure that his original purpose for the earth would be fulfilled. He promised that a ?seed,? or ?offspring,? would come who would ?bruise Satan in the head,? eliminating once and for all his rebellion and its damaging effects.?Genesis 3:15, footnote.?

    More completely silly and false dilemmas. This is just yet another example of the hopeless nonsensical drivel that is presented as an ?explanation? This doesn?t explain anything, it is as usual just an attempt to cloud things and drown the reader in senseless words.

    Then we get the song and dance about the ?ransom sacrifice? which takes the biscuit in it?s incredible silly premise. I don?t think that this drivel even made sense to those poor superstitious shepherds that allegedly cooked up this nonsense a long time ago.

    The obvious stares us all in the face. We are here on this planet; we are a species among many in a world - a nature that doesn?t care about anything. Volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, tornados are just a part of the system on the planet. We know that over 90% of all the species that has lived on the planet is extinct, we know that it has been hit several times by huge comets and that it most likely will be again. We are no more then a mere species among many on this planet. We might not be around anymore in a million years. Life isn?t fair; existence isn?t fair as we see it. There is no God that looks after us. Life as such has absolutely no meaning, we must give life meaning ourselves, we can?t expect anyone ?out there? to do that for us. We can only give life meaning by behaving as ethical and moral beings, helping each other and cooperate with each other. We don?t need a fantasy, a God to do that, we don?t have to bullshit our self
    with complete nonsensical ?explanations? for something that doesn?t need any explanation, as we can observe the realities around us every day. There is much comfort and satisfaction in accepting reality. Acceptance of it gives peace of mind and enable you to get on with life and stop wasting your time on superstitious nonsense.

    Norm

  • minimus
    minimus

    You're such a negative Norwegian, Norm.....Good post! Nice to hear from you, sir!

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos
    Life as such has absolutely no meaning, we must give life meaning ourselves.

    Or must we? Wouldn't be sounder to acknowledge the limitations of "meaning", and stop attempting at making "life," "mankind," "the world," or any other kind of totality "meaningful"?

    Great post btw.

  • seeitallclearlynow
    seeitallclearlynow
    Life isn?t fair; existence isn?t fair as we see it. There is no God that looks after us. Life as such has absolutely no meaning, we must give life meaning ourselves, we can?t expect anyone ?out there? to do that for us. We can only give life meaning by behaving as ethical and moral beings, helping each other and cooperate with each other. We don?t need a fantasy, a God to do that, we don?t have to bullshit our self
    with complete nonsensical ?explanations? for something that doesn?t need any explanation, as we can observe the realities around us every day. There is much comfort and satisfaction in accepting reality. Acceptance of it gives peace of mind and enable you to get on with life and stop wasting your time on superstitious nonsense.

    Norm

    I enjoyed your entire "argument" Norm. Couldn't agree more. Thanks for a terrific, insightful post.

  • sf
    sf

    {{{{ Norm }}}}

    Love, sKally

  • xjw_b12
    xjw_b12

    Apreciate the effort you put into that Norm

  • Valis
    Valis

    Hi Norm! I see you have been gorging on pickled herring again...Always a pleasure to hear from you man and now I'm pining for the fjords.. Oh and if you see that sorry no good for nothing viking bastard Kent tell him I said hello as well...cheers and glad you are around.

    Sincerely,

    District Overbeer

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    To say "christian" and then put up a jw point of view/theme as example (subjection to rulership - a jw favourite) is like a straw man argument against christianity - I say that I am christian because I could hear and identify, without need for or the utilising of superstition - I could agree and be who it is "I am".

    The jw subjection and rulership trip is a whole other kettle of fish.

  • MungoBaobab
    MungoBaobab

    The JW model for why suffering exists is but one straw man in field full of scarecrows.

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    Stupid arguments and false dilemnas is what the Watchtower has been about since its inception. This notion is proof.

    AlanF

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