What Isaiah 11: 6-8 mean?

by male30baroda 10 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • male30baroda
    male30baroda

    Isaiah 11:6-8 ASV ? And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. (7) And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. (8 ) And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den.

    If great crowd will go to heaven to serve with Christ, how can, a child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den.

    If man is not with lion on the earth what need lion shall eat straw like the ox?

  • under74
    under74

    "If great crowd will go to heaven to serve with Christ"

    The "great crowd" in Jehovah's Witness teachings doesn't go to heaven. The "annointed" or "144,000" go to heaven. The "great crowd" lives forever in paradise on earth.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    Generally that passage is attributed to Isaiah (as opposed to additions by 2nd and 3rd Isaiahs) and is probably referring to hopes of utopian glory under the new king Hezekiah. It may have been part of a coronation ode. The author was a frustrated religious reformer seeking to replace the ritual and sacrifice with moral superiority. His efforts and those of some of his contemporaries helped shape Judaism in coming centuries. His hopes of idealic balance with nature under Hezekiah naturally were reinterpreted as a future oracle of a 'coming' one. His concern was Judah but the world has clung to his beautiful words.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    I should have added that the WT has dropped a bomb when it said that the passage is not literal. They, in typical literalist style, found the poetic reason for the change, "for the knowlege of the Lord(YHWH) will fill the ....", difficult to fit the animal world. They now say the wolves and lions are metaphors for violent people. A couple years later they found that they had lost the "scriptural" basis for the panda and lion pictures and so concluded that is would be logical that a transformation in the human world would be mirrored in the animal...................

  • Forscher
    Forscher

    Okay, here goes.

    In my studies on other views, I've seen that many do indeed accept the thought that there will be people on the earth during the Millenial reign of Jesus Christ. If you've read the "Left Behind" series, you've seen that line of thought portraid with some differences from the JW thinking. It would be reasonable to think that during that period, one could see Isaiah's prophecy literally fufilled.

    One thing to keep in mind about commentators, such as Crossan, who teach that many Bible books where written many years later and by persons other than the known authors are not believers. They view the Bible as merely the product of men who were not under any divine inspiration and only reflect the circumstances of the times in which they alledge these later authors wrote. Such doubt limits their view to the earthly, the materialistic, and makes their speculations of little or no value to believers. So one would want to excersize care about accepting their so-called expertise on spiritual things.

    By the way, please don't take that last statement to disparage the non-believers here. It is just my personal opinion as one who is still a believer (in the exostence of God), even though I am now unplugged from the collective. As the German name I have chosen for my identity implies, I am re-examining what I believe in regards to what God's word says. I respect the rights of others in that respect, even if their experiences lead them down the road of disbelief.

    Christian love to all
    Forscher

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    Furher to Peaceful Pete's post, I was surprised by the outspoken literalness of the article in Awake Feb 22 2004, P11

    In Jehovah's new world people will be able to stroke the furry mane of a lion, to stroke the striped coat of a tiger and,yes to sleep in the woods without fear of any animal doing them harm , citing Ezek 34.25: hosea 2.18 and Is.11.6 - 9

    For many years this explanation had bugged me, long before I left I concluded that it could not be literal. Too many changes in the phisical make up of the animals , let alone their instincts , would be needed . I say a tiger is not a tiger if it has not the majesty and fear inducing bearing of a carnivore .

    I think this is one of the dubs silliest beliefs, designed to appeal to children and those of little education

  • robhic
    robhic
    For many years this explanation had bugged me, long before I left I concluded that it could not be literal. Too many changes in the phisical make up of the animals , let alone their instincts , would be needed . I say a tiger is not a tiger if it has not the majesty and fear inducing bearing of a carnivore .

    I, too, find this very unlikely. As you state, a tiger is not really a tiger if he doesn't act the part. A huge pussycat. Who cares? The tiger (and all other large carnivores) would likely die of shame and humiliation if their fierceness was taken away. Not to mention that they couldn't survive on twigs and berries and grass like a ruminant animal. It just ain't right.

    I always find the depiction in the different publications showing the tiger (or whatever) with a beachball between his paws amusing. It sorta demeans the proud beast like some side-show circus animal. Sad and so highly improbable.

  • Eyebrow2
    Eyebrow2

    whoah...whoah....WHOAH!!!!! wow, when did they change the view that it was NOT literal??? I am aghast..I guess I have been out too long...I only stopped going to meetings back in 1998. Did I miss somethihng, or is this new in the last 5 years?

    Thanks

  • Justin
    Justin

    Many such supposed predictions of a future paradise have the Jewish or Israelite nation as their immediate context. As peacefulpete has pointed out, if a fulfillment of this particular prophecy had occured in its historical context, it would have been in the reign of King Hezekiah. With the delay in fulfillment (or non-fulfillment) their fulfillment was expected to be in the times of the Messiah.

    C.T. Russell, as well as other dispensationalists, thought that there would yet be an earthly representation of the kingdom of God in a restored Israel, and as the other nationalities came under the kingdom's sway the blessings upon Israel would be extended to them. But when Rutherford changed these views, and in effect replaced natural Israel with spiritual Israel, a spiritual fulfillment was of necessity imposed upon a spiritual Israel. So the remnant of spiritual Israel is thought to be in a spiritual paradise since 1919. And yet, the prophecies are also considered to be a fitting description of the earthly paradise after Armageddon. So both applications are now offered - the symbolic or spiritual application thought to be primary, and the literal application used in the field service where the texts are quoted out of context without reference to their Israelite base.

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    " For it is written in the law of Moses, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain." Is it for oxen that God is concerned? "

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