Evolution Anyone???

by Steve Josef 50 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Jason
    Jason

    Larcy Larc,

    Actually I'm not taking a break from my research, just from you guys. Guess I went looking for something other than you in the wrong place.
    And since your world isn't all black and white like mine I guess it shouldn't affect you to know what I believe. If it's all shades of grey it shouldn't bother you what I believe because hey, there are no absolutes right? What can any of us possibly know? How many others have the "real truth" other than me? Millions. You constantly put words in my mouth. You think that somewhere along the line I said that I knew everthing. You also seem to think that if someone doesn't believe everything I do they are "liars." But you are assuming these things and none of them are true. The truth can be distributed in varying portions. Even you know truth. It doesn't come out much since all you ever seem to want to do is critisize me for claims I never made. But I think it is impossible for someone not to know any truth at all. Some of us just have more than others. (This can be twisted to say I know more than anyone...especially you, Liar).

    The almighty...I mean, your humble servant, Jason.

  • larc
    larc

    Hello brother Jason,

    Let us start with your last sentence first. You are not a humble servant. You are an arragant know it all who set out to prove it on your "real truth" thread, where you failed miserably.

    Now let's parse a few of you comments you made here in a rather angry tone.

    You assert that I believe that there are no absolutes. There are plenty of them, some of them we understand, like the eliptical orbits of the planets, first discovered by Kepler, and some we don't. As St Paul said in First Corinthians the 13th Chapter, on many subjects, we are "looking through a glass darkly." In areas such as these, we are not lying when we discusss, we are simply operating with limited information. The problem with you is that you mistake differences of opinion for differences in good and evil, and good is on your side and those who disagree with you are evil. This mindset of yours tends to cloud the issues and the discussion. When you refer to me as someone having an "ignorant attitude" you are clearly being judgemental. You simply can't stay in the rational mode very long because you consider people like being tantamount to being the AntiChrist.

    At one point, in your diatribe, you wrote regarding me that I criticize you for claims you never made. What on earth are you talking about? I never criticized you in the first place. I simply criticized your Noah's Ark theory. You see, in your mind you can not separate the critique of an idea from the attack on the idividual. The reason is that you ideas are wrapped up in the battle between good and evil, so you see evil in those who don't agree with you.

    As I said on another thread, once you get right with God, have him teach you some basic math.

  • larc
    larc

    Jason,

    Another example of your emotionally charged, judgemental attitudes is your smerky address to me "Larcy Larc" You are one of the worst spokesman for God and Christianity that I have ever seen. If you think you are one of his best representatives, I would hate to see the rest. AGuest gave you some good advice (I like her by the way), which you did not have enough sense to follow.

    Jason, you are playing with the big boys and girls here, and frankly you are not in their league.

  • larc
    larc

    Jason,

    My friend AlanF just started a new thread, "Sexual Morality in OT & NT." Why don't you review this and offer some of your "real truth."

  • 2bfound
    2bfound

    Steve, hey I’m not insulted or angry. Did I come across that way? No man, I guess I’m a little emotional (time for my medication).
    I’m not so cynical to believe that if I was taught one thing that later in life I found to be incorrect then all is to be doubted.
    I was also a dogmatic evolutionist and as I studied it more in depth, probed, collected papers, articles, etc; I saw the limits of a defunct theory.
    I’ve sat in on scientific debates between respected creationist and evolutionist. I know that the paleontology community is funded by grants, and grants are given by corporations with images to keep.
    I’m not saying that there is a conspiracy out there, but certainly an agenda.
    I can’t help and see the teleological nature of all things. I can’t help but see some dissention in the scientific community. The voices of some top scientist questioning the Darwinian theory of biogenesis. I personally know a college professor in the Illinois area who before becoming a Christian wrote two college text books on evolution that are in use to this day.
    I quote some heavy weights in the scientific community:
    Dr Arno Penzias, PhD Physics Columbia University
    1962 and 1978 Nobel Prize for Physics
    “The majority of Physicist doesn’t want to accept the observational evidence that the universe was created despite the fact that the creation of the universe is supported by all observable data astronomy has produced so far”.

    Like him are many more, and many before him have been Christian Scientist:
    Scientists who were Christians:
    Deceased:
    Francis Bacon
    Johannes Kepler
    Blaise Pascal
    Isaac Newton
    Michael Faraday
    James Clerk Maxwell
    William Henry Perkin
    George Stokes
    Lord Kelvin
    J. J. Thomson
    Charles Coulson
    Living:
    Norman March
    Robert Griffiths
    Richard Bube
    Donald Page
    Allan Sandage
    David Cole
    Francis Collins
    John Polkinghorne
    S. William Pelletier
    Andrew Bocarsly
    James Tour
    Egotistical to believe in the product of a creator? On the contrary to think we are not is the height of arrogance and egotism.

    Your site? Interesting but I’ve seen many so called missing links come and go. I will wait and see. I can’t help but remember the breaking news of the missing link a few years ago between the dinosaurs and birds. Was that not a slap in the face!
    Steve I just got to ask, all these men many leaders in their field, some Nobel Prize winners. All bible believing creationist. What do you know that these men ignore?
    Regards
    Rb

  • Jason
    Jason

    LL Cool Larc,

    Larc, if little pet names like "Larcy Larc" piss you off so much it has nothing to do with me. I didn't even do it to be rude. It was just for fun so you don't have to react so negatively to it.

    You mentioned "another one of my emotionally charged, judgmental attitudes." What are YOU talking about? Not one of these posts is done in either an "emotionally charged" or "judgmental attitude." Calling you Larcy Larc isn't exactly "judging."

    You say I am one of the worset spokesmen for God you've ever seen. Maybe so. But I don't see you doing a better job. Maybe I wouldn't be so bad if you stopped judging me and deciding for me how my posts should read. You always seem to think I am charged up when I am calm, relaxed, and quiet. Perhaps you are reflecting your own attitude in the way you read my posts. Okay, I give. You're right. I can't possibly be a spokesman for God because I said Larcy Larc. God Himself would NEVER use such mean name.

    "If you think you are one of his best representatives," False assumption.
    I did have enough sense to follow AGuests advice. But if you keep yapping at me and telling how evil I am what do you expect? All I'm doing is answering your posts.

    "Jason, you are playing with the big boys and girls here, and frankly you are not in their league."
    It's good to know you are a big boy now, Larc. I'm so proud of you. But really it is you who should be proud of yourself since you're the one with so much arrogance to call yourself a big boy who is out of my league.

    My "humble servant" line was a joke. You don't know how to take one. Y

    Now tell me who is "judgmental." "You are an arragant know it all." Really? And you said I failed miserably. I haven't finished. And you didn't provide any real circumstanstial evidence against mine so who really failed? No one actually failed since the thread hasn't finished.

    "...a few of your comments you made here in a rather angry tone."
    No...I didn't. Every time someone disagrees with you they are angry ,is that it? And your quotation of Paul in First Corinthians was out of context. Just a note.

    You keep bringing up "lie" this and "liar that." I haven't called anyone a liar. But you must believe that everything people write on here, except for me, is true. What do you consider to be a lie? A lie isn't always intentional. If you tell me something you believe to be true, even if I believe it, it can be a lie. A lie is something that isn't true. A person doesn't need to be "lying" to tell someone a lie.

    "you mistake differences of opinion for differences in good and evil, and good is on your side and those who disagree with you are evil."

    Where'd you get this one? All I see is the tip of you finger.

    But you are right on one thing. I clearly believe you and anyone on earth who disagrees with me to be AntiChrist. No, wait, the incarnations of Satan himself from which no good can come. That must be what I believe since I believe in the Bible.

    "you wrote regarding me that I criticize you for claims you never made. What on earth are you talking about? I never criticized you in the first place." I am talking about the fact that you constantly tell me that I think I am God's chief spokesman and that I believe everyone is a liar. I never said any of these things and I won't because I don't believe them. You are making them up. So you continually accuse me of believing things that you assume are true.

    "You see, in your mind you can not separate the critique of an idea from the attack on the idividual." Wrong again. This was continued from your statement above. You didn't know what I was talking about so you decided to answer for me. How thoughtful. This statement you made is not true. I showed you how you "attacked" me, as you put it. Tell me, how are you attacking the ark theory if you are telling me who I am and what I think?

    "As I said on another thread, once you get right with God, have him teach you some basic math."
    Tell me in your "basic math" the correct calculations for the ark, the animals, the food, the work, etc, etc. It is not so basic once you actually take the time to put the little things into account. And I already answered that statement. What a rude thing to say.

    Are you going to keep going on and on about how I think you are evil and that you are a liar? Every time you critisize me you have to resort to false claims about who I am and what I think.

    Jason.

  • Zep
    Zep

    Steve, I'm like you, i consider evolution to be right the money. Having read 'the Blind watchMaker' and a few other books, i finally came round to the idea. Its the only thing that makes any sense of all the evidence. I not sure how the first self replicating molecule and proteins came about, perhaps they were created by some higher being, but it's still clear that we evolved from single cell organisms at the very least. On the idea of God, i'm not sure. Perhaps we humans will eventually evolved into a God like entity capable of controling nature, maybe we are in the latent stages of becoming God himself/herself. I also read, or at least tried to get my head around modern physics...Quantum mechanics etc, and it just left me baffled. What is time, space etc...The amount of realities & alternate universes that could be possible, it defies the imagination and i just cant know. Maybe there is some higher force that be equated to 'God' and that is external to us?

  • Steve Josef
    Steve Josef

    Well, Zep, as you read above some just don't agree with it! lol But the idea of creation is obsurd.Well, as I can tell. And hey how's about larc and jason up there. (I don't think they like each other) :Þ But anyway, with all the reading that I have done, it seems that evolution is the way to go. The first spark may have been an accident, or it may have been done by some one (or thing) But I do believe that from the one spark everything exists today. :)

  • 2bfound
    2bfound

    Well guys, it is true that everyone is entitled to their opinions, and while I've read Richard Dawkins' Blind watchmaker and Gould's many evolutionary expose'. It just happends that they leave more doubts than answers. Still to this day NO evolutionist will give a working model of just how evolution began. You get fragments of the story. While problems like genders and ancestral trees af say insects are void. Transitional forms are an even greater problem; Not just the lack there of but you have an animal in transition that at one point in its generational transition is neither fit for the environment it is entering or the one it is leaving, making it then the weakest in a species and thus easy prey. That throws natural selection out the window.
    I guess we can agree to disagree, but I just can't avoid the obvious. Evolution is defunct.
    But aside from all those objections, I'd say evolution is the most viable answer.
    Regards
    Rb.

  • Zep
    Zep

    2bfound, but how do you explain vestigial structures and junk DNA?. Both are accounted for perfectly by Evolution, and yet i've never heard a Creationist explain them to any satisfaction.
    How do you explain the diffences and yet the similarities between certain animals, like for example: the Lion in Africa and the jaguar South America. Creationists try and pass them of as 'variety within a kind'. Yet they never are able to define what a 'kind' actually is???? The idea opens itself up to huge can of worms.
    You say that Evolutionists have not provided a working model of how it all began. I would say that what they HAVE provided is way more than any creationist has, unless your hiding some info under your hat. How did God actually start things... just by miracle?, thats all we get!.
    How do you explain things like 'The Pandas thumb', since your've read Gould.

    Perhaps you can provide me with some links that can answer some of these Questions for me?

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