JW Beliefs

by treefrog 48 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  treefrog

  Hi there everyone, my name is treefrog and I am new to this site. I am a Roman Catholic so I feel like I'm entering the lion's den here, but not to worry. I hope to share my beliefs with you all regarding our saviour, Jesus Christ.

  I hope to shine a light into your organisation (if Jesus Christ couldn't, how can I expect to!), but hey, it's worth a try.

  I pose a number of issues to you all; please consider these carefully.

  best regards and God bless,

  treefrog

  1. Where does it teach in the Bible that Jesus is Michael the archangel? Why isn't Jesus called Michael right now since he is in heaven?
  2. Why does the New World Translation insert the word Jehovah in the New Testament when there are absolutely no Greek manuscripts that have it in there? Isn?t this playing with the text?

  - The NWT also translates the Greek word kurios ("Lord") as "Jehovah" dozens of times in the NT, despite the fact that the word "Jehovah" is never used by any NT author. It should also be asked why the NWT does not translate kurios as "Jehovah" in Romans 10:9, 1 Corinthians 12:3, Philippians 2:11, 2 Thessalonians 2:1, and Revelation 22:21. If it did translate kyrios consistently, then Jesus would be Jehovah! - The WTS maintains that it is God?s reliable mouthpiece to the nations, and it claims to be God?s inspired prophet (WT, 4-1-1972, 197)?and yet its prophecies have repeatedly proven to be false. The only conclusion to be drawn is that the WTS is to be rejected as a false prophet.

  - The WTS teaches that only the anointed 144,000 seen in Revelation 7 will enter heaven (the "anointed class"), while the remainder that are not annihilated (the "other sheep") will live forever on earth in paradise. However, the Bible poses some irreconcilable difficulties with this idea.
  
  - If Revelation 7 is to be taken literally, there would only be 144,000 Jewish male virgins taken from a square shaped earth, that are now in heaven worshipping a sheep. This would mean that Peter (not a virgin), the Blessed Mother (not a male), and Charles Taze Russell (not a Jew) could not be in heaven. Reading one number literally while taking the rest of a book symbolically is not sound exegesis. Beyond this, we see in Revelation 14 that the 144,000 stand before the 24 elders from Revelation 4:4. This at least brings the grand total to 144,024 people. But, the Scriptures indicate that there are still more to come. Revelation 7:9 speaks of a countless multitude before the throne, which is in heaven (Rev. 14:2-3). Still in the book of Revelation, we read that all those with their name in the book of life are in heaven (Rev. 21:27), while all whose names are not in the book of life are thrown into the pool of fire (Rev. 20:15). There is no third "earthly" class. Jesus reiterates this, and never speaks of two flocks. He has one bride, whose "reward is great in heaven" (Luke 6:23). Paul even exhorts the Christian community, calling them to remember, "As for us, our citizenship exists in the heavens" (Phil. 3:20). Hell: "Wicked will be eternally destroyed" (that is, no hell, just annihilation). Verses given in support: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels . . . And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:41, 46). (The NWT renders Matthew 25:46 as "And these will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life." This is one example of many where the NWT distorts the text to suit the Witnesses? beliefs.) "They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might" (2 Thess. 1:9).
  
  You can see for yourself that these verses actually prove the opposite of what the Witnesses teach that is, they prove the existence of hell. This is compounded when Revelation says of the damned: "And the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever; and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name" (Rev. 14:11). If they are not given any rest, day or night, then obviously they are still around to experience torment.
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  mrsjones5

  treefrog,

  just incase you didnt know - most of the people who post here are ex jehovah's witnesses

  Mrs Jones
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  treefrog

  That is interesting. If that is the case, perhaps you could tell me a little about the reasons why you left the Watchtower Organisation.

  tf
• 

  treefrog

  I was prompted to post here because I live with a JW. He goes out regularly to meetings and door-to-door. I try to be his friend, but he just pushes me away. I am catholic, is that the reason he doesn't want to get close?

  I was in the kitchen earlier, and I making polite small talk, said ''how long do you get off for Christmas? Ooops, the 'dirty' word. He looked at me with a look of death and shrugged his shoulders. ''Okaaay'' I said!!!

  I think it is really sad what the Watchtower organisation is doing to people. How many JW's are happy people?

  God is the Trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, yet this denie this core Christian belief, choosing instead to produce their own, distorted 'New World Translation'.

  Who would you rather follow? A church founded by Christ, the divine son of God, or a sect started by Charles Taze Russell?

  Come on all of you, see the light!

  I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. Isaiah 46:9

  'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.' Matthew 25:40

  Being a Christian, which JW's falsely claim to be, is about loving God, ourselves and our neighbour: how does the Watchtower org. do this?

  They don't - they are a mind controlling, brain-washing sect.

  Get out now, while you can.

  tf
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  Elsewhere

  You're preaching to the quire buddy.
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  M.J.

  Yeah, most people here are well aware of all the knocks against the Watchtower Society and freely discuss them. Unfortunately such warnings are not very productive for people who have already been indoctrinated, unless they already harbor doubts. If you would like to help your friend, it's gonna take a big commitment. Otherwise, I'd just respect his beliefs and let him go about his business or things are going to get ugly.
• 

  Joker10

  It really is a matter of opinion to believe how 'sad it is what the Watchtower is doing to the people'.

  Who would you rather follow? A church founded by Christ, the divine son of God, or a sect started by Charles Taze Russell?

  The Catholic Church is also an organized religion.

  Being a Christian, which JW's falsely claim to be...

  They ARE Christian. A lot of people on this board also agree. There has been discussion obout this.

  They don't - they are a mind controlling, brain-washing sect

  How can you say that after what your church has done to humankind. Personally speaking.
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  treefrog

  Not opinion, fact. Your organisation brainwashes it's people. The Catholic faith is about a loving, forgiving God. A God that forgives you no matter what, all you need do is ask. My faith is about the path to true happiness in this life and eternal happiness with God in heaven. A belief that all men are equal in God's eyes, that the leper, the prostitute and the taxman are all deserving of our love. Like Jesus said, 'whatever you do to the least of these, you do to me!'' Where does the watchtower find justification for shunning people who leave the organisation? Why does the watchtower org. believe that only JW believers will be saved? Why can they not socialise with catholics? Why not?

  Why is it that the watchtower org urges it's members to shun ex-jw's? why? Maybe because they can tell the truth about what the watchtower org is really like! And watchtower, isn't that the creepiest name ever? makes me think of nazi concentration camps!

  The following are passages on various issues in no particular order.

  Apparently, The Bible can only be understood via the Watchtower organization.

  ??The Watchtower magazine is the means of God's communication??

  Gee, I thought the bible was!

  1. Those who think apart from the Watchtower's guidance are like Satan

  A. Quote : "From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude...They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such ?Bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago..." The Watchtower, August 15, 1981.

  1. The Watchtower organization states that through good works and sincere effort only 144,000 elite JW?s will go to heaven. The 144,000 are mentioned in two chapters in the Bible: Revelation 7 & 14. By looking at the verses it is obvious that the 144,000 are literal Jews of the ancient tribes with no Gentiles among them (7:4-8). They are all males (14:4) and virgins (14:4). If the JW states that the usage of Jewish male virgins is figurative, what gives them the right to state that number of 144,000 is literal? HMMMMMMM

  The Bible indicates that God alone created the universe (Is. 44:24), and "he that constructed all things is God" (Heb. 3:4). However, Jesus created the heavens and the earth (Heb. 1:10). This passage by itself proves that Jesus is God, since an Old Testament reference to God (Ps. 102:26-28) is now given to him. In John 8:58, Jesus takes the name of God, "I AM" (Ex. 3:15-18), and applies it to himself. Only God may use this title without blaspheming (Ex. 20:7, Deut. 5:11), and the punishment for someone other than God to use the sacred "I AM" is stoning (Lev. 24:16). Thus in verse 59, Jesus? audience picked up stones to kill him, because they correctly understood his use of "I AM" as his claim to being God and hence thought he was guilty of blasphemy. This verse also proved to be difficult for the JWs to combat, and so they changed "I AM" to "I have been." The Greek here is ego eimi, which any first-semester Greek student can tell you means "I am." It should also be noted that it would be rather strange for people to stone Jesus for saying that he "had been."

  Among other things, the WTS predicted the following:, all false prophecies:

  1889	"The ?battle of the great day of God almighty? (Rev 16:14) which will end in AD 1914 . . . " (Studies, Vol. 2, 1908 edition, 101).
  1891	"With the end of AD 1914, what God calls Babylon, and what men call Christendom, will have passed away, as already shown from prophecy" (Studies, Vol. 3, 153).
  1894	"The end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble" (WT Reprints, 1-1-1894, 1605 and 1677).
  1897	"Our Lord is now present, since October 1874 AD" (Studies, Vol. 4, 1897 edition, 621).
  1916	"The six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th day, the 1000 years of Christ?s reign began in 1873" (Studies, Vol. 2, p. 2 of foreword).
  1917	"Scriptures . . . prove that the Lord?s Second Advent occurred in the fall of 1874" (Studies, Vol. 7, 68).
  1918	"Therefore, we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the faithful prophets of old" (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 89).
  1922	"The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the scriptures than 1914" (WT, 9-1-1922, 262).
  1923	"1925 is definitely settled by the scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge" (WT, 4-1-1923, 106).
  1925	"The year of 1925 is here. . . . Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year" (WT, 1-1-1925, 3).
  1931	"There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah?s faithful ones on earth concerning the dates 1914, 1918, & 1925 . . . and they also learned to quit fixing dates" (Vindication, 388, 389).
  1939	"The disaster of Armageddon is just ahead" (Salvation, 361).
  1941	"Armageddon is surely near . . . soon . . . within a few years" (Children, 10).
  1946	"Armageddon . . . should come sometime before 1972" (They Have Found a Faith, 44).
  1966	"Six thousand years from man?s creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E" (Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God, 29).
  1968	"The end of the six thousand years of man?s history in the fall of 1975 is not tentative, but is accepted as a certain date" (WT, 1-1-1968, 271).

  Besides false prophesies, the WTS has misled its members through countless changes in doctrine and practice:
  
  "To worship Christ in any form cannot be wrong ... " (WT, 3-1880, 83). "It is unscriptural for worshippers of the living and true God to render worship to the Son of God, Jesus Christ" (WT, 11-1-1964, 671).
  
  The men of
• 

  treefrog

  Re: ''what the catholic church has done...''

  sure, bad things have been done by people in the catholic church, but any organisation has it's bad eggs. The inescapable truth though is that our God is loving and forgiving. What's yours? There is massive body of evidence that the Christian faith is the way, the truth and the light; it's called the bible.

  I'll pray for all of you that you may all see the light of Christ and free yourself from the shackles of the watchtower organisation. Life is for living as Christ did. Love yourself, love one another, and God! There is a place in heaven for everyone of us, if only we believe in Him. Not 144,000 elite 'elders' or whatever! What a load of nonsense!

  Wake up and escape from the Watchtower!
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  treefrog

  JW's are NOT Christian; you don't subscribe to the Nicene Creed. You reject the trinitarian nature of God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

  You cannot therefore claim to be Christian.

  JW is a non-Christian sect. FACT.