Question ref baptism annulment

by JustTickledPink 24 Replies latest jw friends

  • JustTickledPink
    JustTickledPink

    See we come from a HUGE family in Canada. My mother is one of 10 kids, 9 of whom are JW. So we have 8 sets of aunts and uncles and all their kids who mostly are JW. We attended a funeral about a year ago and they were horrible to us, wouldn't even let us in our grandmothers home.

    I think my sister brought it up because the "label" would be removed and maybe in times of funerals or family stuff that it might be ok to be there. No to all hang out and socialize, but in dealing with family situations.

    I live 3,300 miles away from them all, so I could care less. They live in a very small community in BC and have the small town mentality, they all do carpentry, or cabinet work, or logging, or work in the mill, etc... they never left home, never left town, they don't grow.

    But it's probably true, the end result would be exactly the same. Thanks for all the wise comments.

  • jws
    jws
    If you get your baptism anulled, I don't believe you will be viewed any differently by the majority of dubs. You will still be a person who turned away from the "troof." And isn't that what a nullification is trying to accomplish? ...trying to be a person who is "ok" for dubs to associate with?

    That would probably be true with your old JW friends and aquaintences. But, it may do some good with her family.

    I had a friend who was never baptised. He comitted a DF'ing act and got DF'ed. This was in the early 80's when they did DF non-baptised people. His JW sister didn't have much to do with him at all afterwards. He tried to get back, got tired of it trying and being given no credit and eventually stopped after a couple of years. He then found another religion.

    One day, the JWs decided that unbaptised people couldn't be disfellowshipped. Now his sister was back and trying to re-establish their relationship. They not talk to each other on a regular basis. She knows he disagrees with the JWs and has joined a new religion. Yet they still talk and visit. There is still a gap and they may never have the relationship they once had, but some good has still come of it.

  • BrendaCloutier
    BrendaCloutier
    I was baptized at a very young age, and only aimed at pleasing my parents.

    DY

    Same here - I was 14-1/2. And since my dad was the elder that took the group through pre-baptism study, and I wanted to please him and my mother, I got baptised because that's what I was supposed to do.

    This is fodder in my file of reasoning to use when confronted by JW's. I was underaged and unable to enter into a contractural arrangement that was legally binding. Except maybe that my parents agreed to it.

    Several years ago I was "directed" to "re-baptism" and "cleansing of current and past life karma" while doing some spiritual work with a healer friend. This "guidance" wasn't from her, but I felt directed anyway. I drove through rush-hour traffic to Shilshole bay and Golden Gardens park (seattle area), walked into the water up to my knees (shoes, sox and jeans all wet - I'm sure the people on the beach thought I was nutz) and scouped water over my head 7 times. As I walked out of the water I was watching the beach because I knew there was a gift there for me. I found a stone knife! When I picked it up, I knew it was my old knife I lost 500+ years ago! I also saw the beach and bay as it was then, without the structures. I also KNEW more about the area, and tracked down my new knowledge about the trails that had become tracks that finally became the paved roads they are (Lake City Way is an old trail). The knife fit my hand pefectly and I knew how to use it to gut and clean salmon.

    I know there are pleanty of skeptics on this board, but you are not the ones who experienced this. I am. I knew then that my past baptism was annuled.

    Hugs

    Brenda

  • mkr32208
    mkr32208

    What is to stop someone from simply sitting in the babtismal seats getting changed and hoping in? All you would have to do is lie and the minute you went under the water all your lies, including those you told to get dipped in the first place (or would it be 2nd place) would be forgiven right?

    That is AWESOME! Does anyone have a reference from the WBTS for that?

  • mustang
    mustang

    This is a "perennial" question, in that it comes up often and over and over.

    The usual start of it is the "underage baptism" question. I am a victim of this myself, @ approximately the same age as you.

    The basic "Underage Baptism" question is usually framed against minors (those not having achieved the "age of majority" as defined by law of the land) since they generally cannot enter into a legal contract.

    This is countered by the opinion that Baptism is NOT a contractual obligation. I cannot explain this, but a forum participant who is in law school @ the moment and deals daily with contract law maintains this. I will defer to his informed opinion.

    The next thing that happens is the issue of RATIFICATION. If you don't renounce the wrong Baptismal decision BEFORE YOU ATTAIN THE "AGE OF MAJORITY", you are AFFIRMING or Ratifying the Baptism by your first meeting attendances, Field Service or other participation in the JW rituals AFTER you "come of age".

    This is similar to being informed that your credit card APR will increase by

    10% after the 1 st of the year. You can turn in the card or not use it after the first and continue to pay it off. Your balance will stay the same APR; but if you use it after the 1 st of the year, the new charges will accrue at the increased rate. This is automatic and most people don't notice anything until the bill goes up. The credit card company will have sent you a notice of the increase. In contrast, JW's will never tell you that you have an option. Actually, most of them don't know anything about this.

    So, most people "blow" the legal opportunity to push this issue by ignorance. And of course, the Elders/WTS will NOT inform you of these matters. They are never discussed. You would have to know the questions to ask. Since most JW's have no legal training, this simply doesn't happen.

    More goes on that one thinks w/ the Baptism: you give away rights and cede authority to the Church by the Baptismal act. This is not ever discovered until one is Disfellowshipped and attempts to sue the WTS. Then the Legal Office trots out a bunch of laws and precedents that shows that you have no "standing to sue".

    You mentioned the Catholic belief of Infant Baptism, which is decried by JW's as unscriptural. Well, I note two things on this subject:

    The first is that the JW's don't explain the Catholic reasoning here to the fullest extent. I only recently discovered, through my own research (looking up 20 or 30 Baptismal Vows from various Churches) that the Catholic scheme of things is a "temporary holding action", so to speak.

    The infant is baptized and some adult "stands for them". The child is later expected to learn what the Church is about and "CONFIRM" the Baptism when they can comprehend it's meaning.

    The second matter is that, in this regard, the Catholics are no different from the JW's. The JW's hold something called the "Family Merit" doctrine. This states that the adults in the life of the child (parents or guardians of the youth) are responsible for the Salvation of the child, including infants. So, the infant or young JW child comes under the same type of "umbrella" that the "infant baptized Catholic" does. You might want to research this.

    When you combine what WE WEREN'T TOLD ABOUT THE CATHOLICS and the little publicized method of JW's explaining the same action, you find very little difference, except prejudice against others.

    The Annulment thing is likewise practically never discussed. That is because it is practically non-existent. I have only heard of it 3 or 4 times. A poster here started a campaign about this a couple of years ago. It is an interesting idea, but it fairly well fell on deaf ears.

    I would take back my Baptism in a heartbeat. I wasn't ready and did it as the typical kids thing to do, like "keeping up with the Jones's". I am very certain now that I wouldn't do it the same if I could do things over.

    However, I have an interesting side note on that:

    My Baptism was BEFORE the '82-'85 changes in the Baptismal Vows. As my brother noted, it is essentially the same as any of a number of other Christian Churches. IT DOES NOT PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE WTS ORGANIZATION. It only refers to Jehovah, Christ and the Ransom!!!

    AND I left the JW's BEFORE the '82-'85 changes in the Baptismal Vows; so I have never RATIFIED the pure JW scheme of things.

    My Baptism is and remains one of CHRISTIAN principles, unsullied by Brooklyn-ism.

    BTW, there was no pre-study or exam when I got dunked

    I am very certain that I would never pass the exam if I took it.

    Mustang

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