Did this couple ever exist?

by Sgt Pepper 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Sgt Pepper
    Sgt Pepper

    Hi - This is my first post!

    I have a question that I have needed answering for over 20 years now.

    Is a story true, that I beleived was true and happily passed on as fact even though I had no evidence.

    It went like this:

    An interested female was studying in America (a long way from Britain)!

    She told her husband that the UN is to ban religion.

    "Where did you learn this Top Secret information?" gasped the husband (who happens to be a high ranking UN official).

    "I learned it from Jehovahs Witnesses" she replied!!!!!

    Conclusion - WBTS claim backed up by the UN itself.

    Does this story have any credibility?

    Anyone else ever heard it?

    I need to know


  • Stephanus
    Does this story have any credibility?

    Not likely. It reeks of urban myth. For comparison, here's an extract from an article I wrote about a conspiracy theorist named Barry Smith. Note the similarities:

    On p.107 of Final Notice is my absolute, ultimate favourite of all Barry's stories, which due to its nature as a classic, will be quoted in full: "Some years ago, I listened to a Christian speaker tell of an experience in which, whilst visiting a country in Africa, he went down to the bar of the hotel in which he was staying, for a lemonade.
    "There, he met a very drunk man and engaged him in conversation in the hope of witnessing to him about the Lord.
    "After some time of discussion, the stranger let him in on the secrets of his behaviour. He explained 'I have to keep myself drunk all the time to subdue my conscience. I work for a world government group and my specialised task is to divert the food away from certain groups so that they will starve to death.' End Quote."
    Now here is a chance to once again play "Find the Fact". Also keep in mind that this story has all the hallmarks of a morality play, a fable regarding the struggle between good and evil, the proponents clearly identified (almost as well as if they had been wearing black and white hats). An unnamed, lemonade drinking Christian ("white hat") stays in an unnamed hotel in an unnamed country. In the bar he meets an unnamed heavy drinker ("black hat"). The "white hat" credential is further strengthened by the fact that he witnesses to this hopelessly lost soul. This very drunk man tells a tale: he belongs to an unnamed "world government group" (which could be almost anything - a UN organisation, a private foundation for world peace or a think-tank - in later books Barry classifies all such groups - from libertarians to socialists as being involved in the NWO conspiracy) which deliberately starves certain unnamed groups of people. Barry must only associate with the lemonade sipping set, because two problems with this story leap out at me at once: If this Christian speaker knows his craft, why on earth is he trying to evangelise someone who is drunk? A standard rule of thumb for witnessing is to not witness to people under the influence of alcohol or any other mind/mood altering substance. And why would you listen to (or at least believe) any tale by someone who is not just drunk, but "very drunk"?
    At the end of this cautionary tale Barry says: "I never realised until I heard that story, how deadly serious these people are in achieving their goals." My question is "How deadly serious 'who' are in achieving 'what ' goals?" I predict that in classic urban myth or fable tradition this story can never be tracked down.
  • Poztate

    Total Bull Crap and another Dub Urban Legend,

    Try this one..

    TWO dubs sitting on a jet plane..opposite two young persons.They had the logo of the United Nations on T-shirts that they wore.

    Religion came up in a conversation they were having about politics etc.When the two young persons learned they were JW"s they were told to hurry and complete their work because "the time was short" for them to accomplish their ministry.CAN I SAY...B.S

    I am sure I missed part of this JW Urban legend in the telling. It was told to me by my wife about 15 years ago and she had a kind of glazed look about her when she recounted it to me.PS (she still has the glazed look)

    PS...Welcome sgt. pepper

  • Happy Guy :)
    Happy Guy :)

    This reminds me of one about 20 years ago from my ex brother-in-law.

    Witnesses are going door to door and knock on the door of a high ranking U.N. official (of course no name provided). They start "witnessing" to the official by saying "Did you know that the U.N. is secretly controlled by Satan and it's real mission is not one of peace but to induce war and destroy God's people?". U.N. official replies by saying "Shhh, nobody is supposed to know that."

    This was presented to me as proof positive, by my ex borther-in-law, that Watchtower's claims were true about the U.N. and about the end of the world.

  • Elsewhere

    But, of course, no one can ever track down that original JW who is/was married to the UN official.

  • Stephanus

    Hey Poztate, that's uncannily like another urban myth used by Barry Smith:

    This story, recounted in Second Warning on pp.1-2, is one of my personal favourites (bar one; see below): In 1980, an unnamed Christian pastor flies across the US seated next to an unnamed Jew. The Jewish gentleman's watch has a strange (undescribed) insignia on it. In conversation several items crop up:
    The gentleman is president of an unnamed group which is "stabilising the world currency system"
    He financed the Common Market
    His group aims "towards the formation of a one world government and a one world religious system".
    His group has planned the collapse of the world monetary system and the issuing of numbers to all people in the world
    His proof of his claims was photographs of him standing next to "prominent (unnamed) world leader(s)"
    His reason for travelling economy, not first class: he didn't want certain (unnamed) people knowing he was on the plane.
    The gentleman was whisked away by his (I suppose I don't even need to say this at this point - unnamed) minders at LA Airport before the Christian pastor could follow him.
    Now this story is a classic because it could be the setting for a game of "Find the Fact" - I challenge you to find a single, verifiable fact in this whole story. The pastor is unnamed, which immediately raises suspicion that this is a "friend of a friend" - standard urban myth territory. A man supposedly involved in very secret and conspiratorial dealings simply tells a total stranger all about it. That he is Jewish and a financier is obviously meant to bring the old "Jewish bankers" conspiracy to mind - "Perhaps he is a Rothschild!", we're supposed to be thinking. Twenty years later, this elderly gentleman (who presumably is now dead, or close to it) has still not enacted his master plan to cause global financial collapse. Herbert W. Armstrong always started his The World Tomorrow programme with images of him shaking hands with "prominent world leaders" - and he's no part of any conspiracy theory I know of (perhaps, like Elvis, he's still alive and working secretly behind the scenes!). Why travelling in one section of a plane rather than another is going to allow him to escape the notice of other shadowy figures is never explained (like everything else in this story!).

    Note the similarity: the people caught up in plans of world domination still take time to tell the defenders of the true faith all about it! It seems one world conspiracists can't resist telling their secret plans to everyone they meet in planes or bars...

  • Earnest

    Hi Sgt Pepper...welcome to the forum.

    The story you mention may have some credibility although I think it highly unlikely the reaction of the UN official was one of shock (if there was a UN official at all). About a year ago a "philosopher" from Cornwall by the name of Anthony Last devised a formula for morality and started a movement called formulism to promote it :

    Dubbed "Formulism," founder Antony Last says of his equation: "Nothing on earth has had a more damaging and divisive effect upon mankind than organised religion. Now, more than ever before, the world is in desperate need of an alternative; something with the power to unite people of all faiths and backgrounds, including atheists and agnostics. That's the purpose of Formulism. It completely destroys artificial divisions, such as those created by religion and patriotism, leaving behind the only distinction with inherent meaning: how people treat each other as individuals (something which is also at the heart of every religion). Formulism facilitates the cessation of religious activity, like the laying down of arms, without anyone having to forsake either God or morality."

    The equation itself, which defines good and evil, looks like this:

    G = A + P(x) F - N and E = A + N(x) F - P

    And translates as:

    Good = Action plus Positive (or potentially positive) effect minus obvious Negative consequences.

    Evil = Action plus Negative (or potentially negative) effect minus obvious Positive consequences.

    In January he proposed to submit a resolution to the United Nations to outlaw religion. Here is a copy of the resolution :

    Freedom from Religion | Proposed UN Resolution / Charter Amendment | Version 1.1


    * to save succeeding generations from the scourge of organized religion, a folly which has brought untold sorrow to mankind through the division, hatred and conflict it engenders, and

    * to reaffirm an individual's right to freedom of belief, freedom of conscience and freedom of prayer, and

    * to establish conditions under which these freedoms can be privately exercised.


    1. To outlaw, with immediate effect, the public expression of religious beliefs, including the use of symbols, clothing or markings which are synonymous with any currently or previously existing religions.

    2. To outlaw, with immediate effect, public acts of worship or religious declaration.

    3. To outlaw, with immediate effect, private gatherings of three or more people for the purposes of engaging in acts of worship or religious services.

    4. To outlaw, with immediate effect, the publication of books, literature or articles which seek to promote religious beliefs or encourage adherence to religious doctrine.

    5. To outlaw, after a period of amnesty, the personal ownership of books or materials which seek to promote religious beliefs or encourage adherence to religious doctrine. (Books of academic or social interest will be made freely available to schools, universities and public libraries).

    6. To outlaw, with immediate effect, the celebration of religiously significant dates.

    7. To begin, with immediate effect, the destruction or reassignment of predominantly religious buildings, such as churches, mosques and temples.

    I do not know whether he actually submitted it to the UN or what their reaction was. I also have reservations as to whether his intent was serious. Cornwall is known for its eccentrics but they usually spend their energy declaring independence from Britain. Anyway, there was a thread on it at the time (http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/65716/1.ashx) if you are interested.


  • Preston

    Let's get this straight: The United Nations is perturbed by the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses......JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES of all people know all their secrets and lies... Pshaw, I learned all this on FOX news already, why do THEY think THEY'RE so special.....windbags!

  • seedy3

    I'm trying to fully remember, but there was an idiot group that put a proposal to the UN, about subduing religion, I forget how it went and what it said, b ut it was a group that needed a nation to submit it (and never got one). it was a finatical Anti religion group, not unlike finitacal religious groups. If I come across the site I'll post it. But it was meaningless, nothing more then you and I wanting to ban Chocolate in Switzerland.


  • gumby

    She told her husband that the UN is to ban religion.

    "Where did you learn this Top Secret information?" gasped the husband (who happens to be a high ranking UN official).

    Two clues,

    1. If the husband was a "high ranking" official for the U.N., he wouldn't be so damn stupid as to react to his wife with the words "Where did you learn this Top Secret information?" . He might as well have said....."yes honey, your correct, who told you for crying out loud"? He might as well have told her she was right. Give me a break!

    2. "gasped" the husband.......... Reaks with childish hoaks verbal pranks.


Share this