Marking...?

by Gill 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Gill
    Gill

    Does anyone out there remember 'marking'. The principle being that if you saw something that you thought 'weak' or 'inappropriate' in your brother you didn't tell others but you 'marked them in your heart' and this person became someone that you personally kept contact with down to the minimum. Talk about judging your brothers! I don't have the references in the literature to hand but someone must have. I"d never realised how important it was to keep the old lit. When my husband and myself discovered it was all crap he rushed every last piece of JW lit. down to the local tip! I managed to save two bibles and an old year book by the skin of my teeth. Shame really 'cos we had some of the really really old books from the early 1900's. Gold dust!

    Any one remember or got references.?

    Gill

  • kls
    kls

    Hi Gill i have no idea ( what a surprise ) but i will send this back to the top and see if any others know.

  • Scully
    Scully

    *** w85 4/15 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers ***

    Questions

    From Readers

    ยท

    If a Christian feels that someone in the congregation is not the best of association because of that person?s conduct or attitude, should he personally ?mark? that individual in accord with 2 Thessalonians 3:14, 15?

    Those who become part of the Christian congregation do so because they love Jehovah and sincerely want to live by his principles. It is better to fellowship with these than with worldly people. We may be more comfortable with certain Christians, as Jesus ?especially loved? the apostle John and was particularly close to 3 of the 12. Still, he chose, was interested in, and loved all of them. (John 13:1, 23; 19:26; Mark 5:37; 9:2; 14:33) Though all brothers have failings of which we must be understanding and forgiving, we know that for the most part fellow believers are wholesome companions. (1 Peter 4:8; Matthew 7:1-5) Love for one another is an identifying mark of the Christian congregation. ?John 13:34, 35; Colossians 3:14.

    On occasion, however, someone may have an attitude or way of life of which we personally do not approve. The apostle Paul wrote about some in Corinth whose personal views about the resurrection were not right and who may have had an ?eat, drink, and be merry? attitude. Mature Christians in the congregation needed to be cautious about such ones, for Paul advised: "Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits."?1 Corinthians 15:12, 32, 33.

    This general counsel is also valid today. For example, a Christian couple may find that their children are adversely affected when they spend time with certain other youngsters, who may not yet take the truth seriously or may be worldly minded. These other children may yet benefit from godly training. But until there is evidence of that, the couple might restrict their children as to playing with and visiting those youngsters. This would not be a ?marking? such as spoken of in 2 Thessalonians chapter 3. The parents simply are applying Paul?s advice to avoid "bad associations."

    Situations that call for ?marking? are more serious than the above example involving children. Occasionally a person in a congregation pursues an unscriptural course that is very disturbing, though it does not yet justify the disfellowshipping action mentioned at 1 Corinthians 5:11-13. Such conduct occurred in the congregation of ancient Thessalonica, so Paul wrote: "We hear certain ones are walking disorderly among you, not working at all but meddling with what does not concern them."?2 Thessalonians 3:11.

    What were other Christians in Thessalonica to do? Paul wrote: "We are giving you orders, brothers, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, to withdraw from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition you received from us. For your part, brothers, do not give up in doing right. But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked, stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother."?2 Thessalonians 3:6, 13-15.

    Thus, without naming the lazy meddlers, Paul exposed to the congregation their serious course. All Christians who were aware of the identity of the disorderly ones would then treat them as "marked." The counsel, "keep this one marked," used a Greek word meaning "be you putting sign on," that is, ?taking special notice of someone.? (New World Translation Reference Bible, footnote) Paul said, "Stop associating with" the marked one "that he may become ashamed." Brothers would not completely shun him, for Paul advised them to "continue admonishing him as a brother." Yet by their limiting social fellowship with him, they might lead him to become ashamed and perhaps awaken him to the need to conform to Bible principles. Meanwhile the brothers and sisters would be protected from his unwholesome influence.?2 Timothy 2:20, 21.

    The Christian congregation today also applies this counsel. The Watchtower of February 1, 1982, page 31, stressed that marking is not to be done over mere private opinions or when a Christian personally chooses to avoid close association with someone. As shown by the case in Thessalonica, marking involves serious violations of Bible principles. First the elders try repeatedly to help the violator by admonishing him. If the problem persists, they may, without naming the person, give a warning talk to the congregation concerning the disorderly conduct involved, even as Paul warned the Thessalonians. After that, individual Christians would keep the erring person "marked."

    Good judgment is needed rather than predetermined rules about every aspect of marking. Paul did not give detailed rules regarding that problem in Thessalonica, such as stipulating how long someone had to have been refusing to work before he could be marked. Similarly, the elders are in touch with the flock and can use reasonableness and discernment in determining whether a particular situation is sufficiently serious and disturbing so as to require a warning talk to the congregation.

    One purpose of marking is to move a disorderly Christian to feel ashamed and stop his unscriptural course. Individuals who had marked him, particularly the elders, will continue to encourage him and note his attitude as they have contact with him at meetings and in field service. When they see that the problem and attitude necessitating the marking have changed for the better, they can end their limitation as to socializing with him.

    Consequently, marking should not be confused with a personal or family application of God?s advice to avoid bad association. While marking is not something that is needed often, it should be plain that marking is a Scriptural step that is taken when it is warranted, which step our Thessalonian brothers took.

    [Footnotes]

    See The Watchtower, May 15, 1973, pages 318-20.

    For example, elders should exercise discernment in dealing with a Christian who is dating a person not "in the Lord."?See The Watchtower of March 15, 1982, page 31.

  • Scully
    Scully

    *** w81 9/1 pp. 20-21 Happy Are Those Whom God Corrects ***

    "KEEP

    THIS ONE MARKED"

    16

    Continuing in the counsel to the Thessalonians about the lazy, disorderly ones, Paul wrote: "If anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked, stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother." (2 Thess. 3:14, 15) Hence, Christians can ?mark? someone who persists in disregarding God?s principles.

    17

    We need, however, to exercise great care in applying this divine counsel. In our imperfection, we might tend to make personal judgments based on individual likes or dislikes, such as about styles of dress or grooming. But if a sister?s clothing, for example, is not immodest, indecent, or shocking to the brothers in general, we should recognize that she simply has a different taste or preference. (Gen. 37:3, 4; John 19:23; 1 Tim. 2:9, 10) We have not been made judges of our brothers and sisters on inconsequential matters of opinion, taste or variations of conscience. (Rom. 14:4, 10-12) Or, even if someone is incorrect on what is really a minor point, we must recall Jesus? advice:

    "Stop judging that you may not be judged; for with what judgment you are judging, you will be judged; . . . Why, then, do you look at the straw in your brother?s eye, but do not consider the rafter in your own eye?"?Matt. 7:1-3.

    18

    However, what if there is someone who is significantly deviating from God?s principles, perhaps being grossly lazy or critical, a ?profitless talker? who is a constant ?meddler with what does not concern him?? (2 Thess. 3:11) Or, the problem may be one of scheming to take material advantage of others, indulging in entertainment that clearly is improper, or getting involved in questionable conduct that does not at this point merit judicial action. The elders have tried to help him, but he persists and may be affecting others in the congregation or presenting a danger to others. The elders can discuss the matter and may assign one of their number to give a firm, direct Scriptural talk on the matter to the congregation. Without mentioning the "disorderly" one by name, the elders may thus be able ?to shut the mouth of? such an unruly one.?Titus 1:10-13.

    19

    Should such a situation exist in a congregation, individual Christians might feel obliged to ?mark? the person. Paul explains what this, in part, involves, saying: "Stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed." (2 Thess. 3:14) That would mean your curtailing social involvement with the "marked" person. You should not announce or publicize your private decision, nor try to influence others. But you personally would avoid the company of the "marked" person, in keeping with the healthful counsel given by the congregation?s elders. You would not, though, reject him altogether, for he is still your brother, a fellow Christian for whom Christ died. Rather than allowing any seeds of "hate" to develop, you should "reprove" him. How? Well, in addition to being a good example yourself, your kindly but firmly obeying the direction "Stop associating with him" is one form of correction. But you can do more to help.?Lev. 19:17; Titus 2:7, 8.

    20

    You will still be around the "marked" Christian at congregational meetings and in the field service. Thus, you may have occasion to carry out your other obligation involved in ?marking? him: "Do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother." (2 Thess. 3:14, 15) If you did not fulfill your responsibility as to this aspect of God?s counsel, but treated the "marked" person as an enemy, your course might be as unloving as his.

    21

    It is to be hoped that the "marked" individual will become ashamed. He may realize that it is by Scriptural direction that you are avoiding his social company. This discipline may help him to "straighten up the hands that hang down and the enfeebled knees, . . . that what is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather that it may be healed." In view of the vast numbers of loyal brothers associating with God?s congregation today, likely it will be seldom that Christians are obliged to ?mark? a disorderly brother. But when this does occur, perhaps correction, combined with continued admonishing, will ?yield peaceable fruit, namely, righteousness.??Heb. 12:11-13.

    Excuse me while I barf.

  • shamus
    shamus

    Talk about taking scriptures to the extreme. Throw out brotherly love with one hand, all while whining that the congregations have no true love.

    They're logic is so messed up I can't even fathom it. Thank god I'm out!

  • kls
    kls

    Hey Shamus how is you , long time no see.

  • fleaman uk
    fleaman uk

    indulging in entertainment that clearly is improper, or getting involved in questionable conduct that does not at this point merit judicial action

    I wonder what that would include??????Anybody know?

  • ezekiel3
    ezekiel3

    Here is the marking challenge #1: Name a scenario where a JW would be marked but not actually warrant discipline (private reproof or DFing).

    Hence, Christians can ?mark? someone who persists in disregarding God?s principles. - WT 1981 9/1 pg 20

    According the WT the criteria are:

    1. Grossly lazy or critical
    2. A constant meddler
    3. Indulging in entertainment that clearly is improper
    4. Involved in questionable conduct that does not at this point warrant judicial action

    Talk about vague and ambiguous!

    Marking challenge #2: Inform the congregation of the marked person without mentioning their name!

    If the problem persists, they may, without naming the person, give a warning talk to the congregation concerning the disorderly conduct involved - WT 1985 4/15 pp 30-31

    Imagine this scenario:

    "Brothers and sisters, during our local needs talk tonight we will discuss the problem of laziness that comes from watching all the Harry Potter movies in one go. Clearly you know whom I am talking about. Although we can't disfellowship for this conduct, we plan to embarrass the fellow sitting in the third row there. Oh, and remember, only the elders are allowed to be constant meddlers."

  • heart2heart
    heart2heart
    Brothers would not completely shun him, for Paul advised them to "continue admonishing him as a brother." Yet by their limiting social fellowship with him, they might lead him to become ashamed and perhaps awaken him to the need to conform to Bible principles. Meanwhile the brothers and sisters would be protected from his unwholesome influence.?2 Timothy 2:20, 21.

    I'm sorry, but if people limited their contact with me because I was considered "spiritually weak" for wearing a certain style of clothes or hair, or indulging in certain entertainment, do you really think that would make me feel 'ashamed and perhaps awaken me to the need to conform to Bible principles'? More than likely I would feel lonely and left out, depressed and would stop coming and therefore become even more "spiritually weak" (from a JW standpoint), and eventually leave (good for me, but goes against what they are trying to accomplish). Or, worse, I would feel lonely and left out and depressed, which would cause me to live a double life so I would appear to have a 'wholesome influence' to the congregation and therefore would get more attention, but on the inside I would be totally miserable and more depressed because I have to pretend to be something else in order to feel loved and appreciated (bad for me, but exactly where they want me). Did it ever make you love someone if they pushed you away and made you feel horrible? Their logic of marking and shunning is so twisted, and makes people go back for all the wrong reasons. It doesn't solve anything at all - just makes more problems for the marked/shunned person.

    2

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    Do you think we should "mark" people on JWD?

    Just a thought.

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