Studying the new "Keep on the Watch!" brochure- Whose Shameless Luxury? p13

by ozziepost 19 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  ozziepost

  From the new brochure on page 13 comes this gem:

  The Bible also says that Babylon the Great lives "in shameless luxuary". In ancient Babylon, the temple organization acquired extensive landholdings, and the priests became prominent in commercial activities. Today, in addition to places of worship, Babylon the Great has vast commercial holdings. Her teachings and her holidays bring great riches both to her and to others in the business world.

  What does that mean? No proofs are offered so we are left without satisfaction. So we must make our own investigation.

  Let us take the case of protestant churches in New South Wales in Australia and consider any benefit they gain from "worldly holidays". The holiday that might readily come to mind is Christmas. True, retailers gain a great deal from this increasingly secular holiday but is it any longer a Christian holiday? Very little of the trappings of Christmas are religious in nature, at least from a christian viewpoint, instead, as the WTS is wont to remind its readers, Christmas celebrations are secular or pagan in origin and practice. The sacred aspect of Christmas has no commercial value for the churches that I'm familiar with, so how does it "bring great riches" to my church and to others?

  This statement in the brochure seems to be yet another of those broad statements that dubs are conditioned by but which are quite meaningless. Nevertheless such statements as this condition the dub mind to hate churches, clergy and anything connected with them.

  If we now go back to an earlier part of the paragraph we are told that "Babylon the Great" (which they claim represents all religion which is not of the Watchtower Society) "has vast commercial holdings". This seems to be another hypocritical statement to add to those already highlighted in earlier threads.

  It may surprise the R&F dubs to know that ministers of churches are quite bemused, not to say envious, to learn of the scope of the WTS' real estate and property holdings.

  Also not mentioned in this paragraph is the enforcing of a levy (tithing???) on each Witness in the form of compulsory donations "to the World Wide Work". Yet the WTS has the gall to condemn the churches???!!! If a church has an offertory it's condemned and ridiculed by the WTS, yet the WTS itself has compulsory giving.

  This paragraph is included as justifying God's condemnation of Babylon the Great for whom "'The Hour of Judgment' Has Arrived"

  Does it stack up? No, lies again!

  Cheers, Ozzie (freedom lovers class)
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  kwintestal

  Also not mentioned in this paragraph is the enforcing of a levy (tithing???) on each Witness in the form of compulsory donations "to the World Wide Work". Yet the WTS has the gall to condemn the churches???!!! If a church has an offertory it's condemned and ridiculed by the WTS, yet the WTS itself has compulsory giving.

  Great post op.

  Conversation with my parents and grandmother they said that one of the things that shows them that the JW's are right, is that there is no "guilting" used to recieve donations, and that everyone can give freely as they feel fit.

  They said "Sure they may once a year issue a reminder..."

  They don't notice it. The way the WTS asks for money is subtle enough, that sure, they're not saying "Give us money!" but they are strongly suggesting it.

  Being a JW is a very expensive undertaking. You have to buy a new wardrobe, a 4-door car, gas to putt around with in the door to-door-ministry, coffee break (I remember saying to Mrs. Kwin that we couldn't go out in service becasue we didn't have money for coffee break at the time), gas money for the person driving the other half of the family, time needed to take off work for meetings / assemblies / memorial / special talks and so on, donations for the WWW, donations to the KH building fund, donations to the HK operating fund, donations for the books, magazines and other "spiritual (junk) food". The list goes on.

  The WTS is hypocritical when it advised many that the end is so near, that there was no need to save up for retirement, no need to buy a house. Yet, how much has the WTS saved up? How much property does it own? How many of these people that they have told not to save money / buy a house are now 65+, living in POVERTY or still working to make ends meet, because of following the WTS instructions? And how many are the WTS putting up, providing room and board to in a comfortable setting?

  These ones have dedicated their whole lives to a cause, they think they're doing what is right. Do they have doubts? Maybe, but why would you want to research them, only to find that in your late years you've wasted the years of your life away for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

  Kwin
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  Will Power

  I am enjoying your critique of this brochure.

  Amazing - so much to expose. There is no way that it is all an accident. Every word, picture, title, headline, #'ed question, #'ed answer is calculated for a certain response. The emotional response is all that matters and is the sole purpose of these magazines, week after week, year after year.

  The fact that you SEE the desired response (probably cause you are used to feeling it) now you can REALLY SEE it for what it is, and why they print the way they do.

  Let us take the case of protestant churches in New South Wales in Australia and consider any benefit they gain from "worldly holidays". The holiday that might readily come to mind is Christmas. True, retailers gain a great deal from this increasingly secular holiday but is it any longer a Christian holiday? Very little of the trappings of Christmas are religious in nature, at least from a christian viewpoint, instead, as the WTS is wont to remind its readers, Christmas celebrations are secular or pagan in origin and practice. The sacred aspect of Christmas has no commercial value for the churches that I'm familiar with, so how does it "bring great riches" to my church and to others?

  Not sure I agree with this 100% - Churches are very busy this time of year - when most are in the extra giving mood they get together for community service (non-denominational giving without expectation), food banks, hampers, putting up the homeless during the winter, collect winter coats, shoes & boots, toys for kids, etc, etc....since these good people are all over the world - this is their WWW - in their own community ! Their own unknown neighbours. This IS a sacred aspect - the idea of gift giving, looking after the unfortunate, the widows the orphans - yes and it goes on all year long. What better way to teach the little ones (who grow up to be big ones) how important it is to be compassionate to others - whether gifts, time, money...no matter what time of year.

  Do they have doubts? Maybe, but why would you want to research them, only to find that in your late years you've wasted the years of your life away for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

  I understand that they need to protect themselves emotionally first - but on the other side do they think of the ones who are just beginning this long path of waste? Or the ones left behind in their "nothing personal" dust?

  Will
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  Schizm

  These ones have dedicated their whole lives to a cause....only to find that in your late years you've wasted the years of your life away for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

  All for "nothing," you say. There could never be a more false assertion made by anybody!

  You fail to take into account that such ones have laid up "treasures in heaven" as a result of having used their lives the way they did. Or, are we to assume that God hasn't noticed all that they did? So what if the new system under Christ's authority doesn't arrive before such ones die, should that make such ones feel that their efforts were wasted? The answer to that would be "yes" for those who would not haved served in the first place had there not been any hope of the end coming within their lifetime (which is selfishly motivated). But for those who serve UNSELFISHLY, the answer would be "no" their efforts have not been wasted. We all will die. The only thing that will truly matter on THAT date is ... what do we then have to look forward to? For those who did nothing with their lives other than to lay around and bask in the sun, enjoying their lives to the fullest extent from day to day, what reason will they have to feel hopeful on THAT day?

  .
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  ellderwho

  These ones have dedicated their whole lives to a cause....only to find that in your late years you've wasted the years of your life away for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

  All for "nothing," you say. There could never be a more false assertion made by anybody!

  Schizm, why do you feel that is a false assertion?
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  kwintestal

  All for "nothing," you say. There could never be a more false assertion made by anybody!

  I'm just looking at it from a different perspective and I wouldn't call it a "false assertion". I have no doubt that God will look down at these ones and judge them favourably for their sincere effort, even if their faith in the WTS was misplaced.

  Would a 70 year old man/woman, who has spent the past 50 years in full-time WTS service, who didn't get married to "further the work", didn't buy a house/or sold thier house to "further the work", didn't educate themselves in order to get a decent job to "further the work", worked for minimum wage thier whole life doing dead end jobs part-time to "further the work", would they think that the past 50 years of their live was "for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING"?

  When they're sitting in their government subsidised (they don't have a pension because they never had a good job therefore have a very limited income) hole apartment alone (because the only "friends" they did have were JW's, and now that they're not one are shunned by all these "friends"), thinking of the children and grandchildren that they didn't have(Paul was single, right?), does that person think that the past 50 years of their life was "for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" when they find out that the ideal that they pushed for so long was nothing different then what everyone else has?

  It makes for a very empty life. Granted though, God WILL look favourably upon them.

  Kwin
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  johnny cip

  schizm: what gives you the idea that god is happy . with a jw that spent thier whole lives . as wt dope attics. pushing dope on the corner or d2d.. pushing a false gospel, and going out of their way to hurt others , who don't want to become a wt DOPE. I WAS JUSTR READING THE nov 1 wt. the life story. this guy wasd so happy in 1922 about the wt. well in 1922 they were teaching the world was to end in 1925. once 1925 came and went this DOPE should have seen from the bible he carries around that the wt was full of crap. but no this WT DOPE THINGS HE HAS BEEN SERVING JEHOVAH since 1922. what a FALSE WITNESS. SO FOR THE LAST 80 years this dope, has been setting up his treasures in the pit.. he had his bible right infront of him. but no he wanted to go into the pit with the wt. and that's were all jw's who learn the truth about the wt . and still want to idolize the wt are going. john
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  Triple A

  Also not mentioned in this paragraph is the enforcing of a levy (tithing???) on each Witness in the form of compulsory donations "to the World Wide Work". Yet the WTS has the gall to condemn the churches???!!! If a church has an offertory it's condemned and ridiculed by the WTS, yet the WTS itself has compulsory giving.

  It is my understanding that the WTS never outwardly ask for donations. You said the enforce a levy and compulsory donations "to the World Wide Work". Are these expressed only to individuals from within the congregations or does the WTS put that in writing to the masses?

  If so, can you tell me where I can find these "requests?"
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  Gretchen956

  Babylon, the temple organization acquired extensive landholdings, and the priests became prominent in commercial activities. Today, in addition to places of worship, Babylon the Great has vast commercial holdings.

  Here is the pot calling the kettle black! Good grief, look at the real estate holdings the WTS has! And if anyone here is under the delusion that the WTS is not exTREMELY wealthy, they better guess again.

  What a bunch of hypocrites.

  Sherry
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  ozziepost

  If so, can you tell me where I can find these "requests?"

  Dubs and ex-dubs would know what I mean!! They have an enforced donation arrangement that centres around their literature. You would need to get hold of various issues of Kingdom ministry and letters to BOE for details.

  Like I say, dubs know all about this and it's a source of much angst.