Disfellowshipping and Shunning- is it scriptual?

by MonkeyPrincess 18 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • MonkeyPrincess
    MonkeyPrincess

    Tonight my sister told me our dad had mentioned that when you do not associate yourself with a disfellowshipped person, relative or not, you are honoring god and following the bible's guidlines.
    I asked my sister if she knew where in the bible it states that. She said she did not know, but knows that its in there, and knows that it relates something to that affect. We are both disfellowshipped
    and shunned by our family. Since i do not have a bible to research it, i was wondering if anyone knew where in the bible it would state that, and what the scripture says exactly. I just want to know in case
    my dad has the same discussion with me, then i can be prepared. Keep in mind he told her this while reminding her she is not allowed in their lives anymore, unless dying or returning to the org.

    So, if anyone has any info, can you please share, its much appriciated.

    If this has been posted before, i apologize.

    Many Thanks, MonkeyPrincess

  • Lostreality
    Lostreality

    something reloving around protection of the flock by the elders in the congregation.

    personally i think they should start with the perverts and idiots...tahts just me though.

    i guess they consider people who think for themselves too dangerous

    *remembers THX*

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    The only support they have is in 1Cor.5.
    "The Message", which is also on the site that I've linked to, puts it in an interesting way.

    It's not uncommon for the WTS to have a major doctrine based on a single verse, or a patchwork of unrelated texts.

  • AlmostAtheist
    AlmostAtheist

    When I was still in the organization I did some truly awful things and was deservedly disfellowshipped. I was a threat to the spiritual health of anyone I spoke to, so shunning actually made some sense then. But just like I snapped and started acting out, I one day woke up and realized how off the mark I was and started seeking forgiveness from those I'd hurt, including the congregation, via the judicial committee. They met with me, read me the "several months, a year, or even longer" time-frame suggested by the OM book for keeping DF'd people out, and encouraged me to show my repentence by attending every meeting.

    Of course, I was overwhelmed with guilt, so I was happy to be told what to do in order to get myself "back with Jehovah". As the weeks passed, though, I couldn't help but notice that 1Cor 5:11 said to 'quit mixing in company with' people that ARE fornicators, idolators, etc, etc. Not that HAVE BEEN such, but that currently ARE. Since I'd stopped all my sinful practices, I couldn't understand why the shunning couldn't immediately be lifted. I was never given a scriptural answer to that, but I was fully indoctrinated at the time, so I'm sure I accepted whatever lame excuse they offered for it.

    Personally, I think the Bible supports the shunning concept, but that when the immoral person stops doing the immoral thing, it ought to stop. The prodigal son in Jesus own illustration wasn't told to wait "several months, a year, or even longer" before his father would accept him back.

    As for DF'ing over "apostasy" (i.e., believing something different than JW's), I think they use 2John1:10,11 where John warns that if someone comes to you and doesn't bear "this teaching" (the teaching of the Christ, see earlier verses) then you shouldn't have him in your home, or say a greeting to him. To do so is to "share in his wicked works". I doubt John was referring to the whole body of doctrine currently taught by the Watchtower ( ), but that's the way the JW's apply it. Verse 7 specifically warns about people that don't teach Christ came in the flesh, this is clearly a narrow warning against those that would teach against Jesus as the Christ. But of course they abuse it.

    I should probably add that I don't think outright "shunning" is appropriate ever. I can't imagine what it would take to make me act uncivilly toward a group of people. Perhaps a single individual of my own choosing, but never a "class" of people. I do think the Bible supports that concept, but I don't believe the Bible is inspired.

    Dave

  • Balsam
    Balsam

    Here is their reasoning from the publications. I understand the Elders manual says that family will not be disfellowshipped for communicating with disfellowshipped ones. For instance the Elders told my ex-husband he can have contact with our disfellowshipped oldest son, so long as it is not of a spiritual nature. He continues to check on him and he drops in on his Dad and new JW wife.

    From the 7/15/1995 Watchtower article pg. 25-27

    Disfellowshipping?A

    Loving Provision?

    "HOLY, holy, holy is Jehovah God, the Almighty." (Revelation 4:8) In accord with that description, Jehovah is the Source of holy standards. These are set out in "the holy writings," and Christians are obligated to follow these guidelines. Indeed, they must avoid anything unclean in Jehovah?s eyes.?2 Timothy 3:15; Isaiah 52:11.

    The Bible clearly commands: "In accord with the Holy One who called you, do you also become holy yourselves in all your conduct, because it is written: ?You must be holy, because I am holy.?" (1 Peter 1:15, 16) Ever since the Christian congregation came into existence 19 centuries ago, true Christians have put up a hard fight to protect it from spiritual and moral uncleanness.?Jude 3.

    Why

    Protection Is Necessary

    All of God?s servants face the challenge of keeping clean morally and spiritually. To that end, three powerful enemies must be resisted?Satan, his world, and our sinful fleshly inclinations. (Romans 5:12; 2 Corinthians 2:11; 1 John 5:19) Satan?s world will tempt you to be immoral, will challenge you to adopt its ways, and will offer you material wealth, fame, position, prominence, and power. But those who are determined to pursue true worship resist what Satan offers and remain "without spot from the world." Why? Because they want to stay under the protective and loving care of Jehovah?s clean organization.?James 1:27; 1 John 2:15-17.

    Jehovah has provided assistance for any member of the Christian congregation who falls victim to Satan?s temptations because of human weakness. Spiritually qualified elders have been appointed to protect the congregation and lovingly help erring ones to repent of their sin and make the adjustments needed for recovery. Any Christian who gets involved in wrongdoing should be patiently helped to repent and change his ways.?Galatians 6:1, 2; James 5:13-16.

    How

    Disfellowshipping Is Loving

    Baptized servants of Jehovah who deliberately follow a wicked course and refuse to change must be viewed as unrepentant and thus unfit for Christian fellowship. (Compare 1 John 2:19.) Such individuals cannot be allowed to remain in the clean Christian congregation and thereby contaminate it. They must be expelled.

    The propriety of expelling those who practice wicked deeds can be illustrated by the following situation: Because of the increase of assaults and violent crimes against students, some schools have adopted a policy that "calls for lifetime suspensions for students who use or threaten to use weapons," reports The Globe and Mail, a newspaper in Toronto, Canada. The expelling is done to protect the students who want to benefit from the educational program without being subjected to violent acts.

    Why is it loving to expel an unrepentant wrongdoer from the congregation? Doing so is an expression of love for Jehovah and his ways. (Psalm 97:10) This action shows love for those pursuing a righteous course because it removes from their midst one who could exercise a bad influence on them. It also protects the purity of the congregation. (1 Corinthians 5:1-13) If gross immorality or spiritual uncleanness were permitted to remain in the congregation, it would become contaminated and would be unsuitable for rendering sacred service to Jehovah, who is holy. Furthermore, the wrongdoer?s expulsion may help him to see the seriousness of his wayward course, repent, and make necessary changes and thus be accepted back into the congregation.

    The

    Effect on Others

    When a member of the congregation commits a serious sin, such as adultery, he is not making Jehovah?s heart rejoice. (Proverbs 27:11) Any Christian who succumbs to sexual immorality certainly is not thinking as Joseph did when Potiphar?s wife tried to get him to have sexual relations with her. Joseph?s reaction was: "How could I commit this great badness and actually sin against God?" (Genesis 39:6-12) Joseph respected Jehovah?s holy standards and fled the scene. On the other hand, an adulterer seems to lack sufficient love for God to refrain from satisfying his fleshly passion.?Galatians 5:19-21.

    A baptized person who violates God?s commandments is not manifesting concern about the damage and pain he will cause his believing relatives. The emotional impact is more than some can bear. After discovering that her son was immoral, one Christian woman lamented: "Very few, if any, brothers and sisters seem to understand how hurt and devastated we are. . . . We are crushed at heart." The good name of an entire family may be brought into question. Depression and a measure of guilt may beset faithful family members. The wrongdoer?s wicked course thus brings heartache to the family.

    Loving Help for Family Members

    Faithful Christian family members of expelled individuals need to remember that disfellowshipping is both loving and protective. Every possible effort is made to help the wrongdoer. But if he proves to be disobedient to God and is stubbornly unrepentant, the congregation needs to be protected and has no alternative but to act as God?s Word directs: "Remove the wicked man from among yourselves." (1 Corinthians 5:13) As one Witness said, "disfellowshipping is about loyalty to Jehovah."

    When a family member is disfellowshipped, Christian relatives experience pain. Appointed elders should therefore do their best to be spiritually refreshing to them. (1 Thessalonians 5:14) Elders can pray for them and with them. Often it is possible to visit these faithful Christians to discuss upbuilding Scriptural thoughts. Shepherds of the flock should use every opportunity to strengthen these dear ones spiritually before and after Christian meetings. Additional encouragement can be given by accompanying them in the field ministry. (Romans 1:11, 12) Spiritual shepherds need to show these faithful servants of Jehovah the love and attention they deserve.?1 Thessalonians 2:7, 8.

    The sinful course of a person is no reason to ignore any in his family who remain faithful to Jehovah. Israel?s wicked King Saul was rejected by God, but David did not allow this to interfere with his own affection for Saul?s son Jonathan. In fact, the bond between David and Jonathan became very strong. (1 Samuel 15:22, 23; 18:1-3; 20:41) So all in the congregation should be supportive and loving toward Christians whose relatives sin against Jehovah.

    How unloving it would be to ignore or be unkind to such faithful ones! Loyal family members have a special need for encouragement. They may feel alone and may find their situation very difficult. Perhaps you can share a spiritual gem or an upbuilding experience with them by telephone. If the expelled person answers the phone, simply ask to speak to the Christian relative. You might invite the faithful members in such a household to a social gathering or a meal in your home. If you meet them while shopping, you might use that occasion for some upbuilding association. Remember, loyal Christians who have disfellowshipped relatives are still part of Jehovah?s clean organization. They could easily become isolated and discouraged. Therefore, be alert to show them kindness and love. Continue to do good ?toward all those related to you in the faith.??Galatians 6:10.

    Appreciate Jehovah?s Provision

    How thankful we can be that Jehovah God shows tender concern for each one in the worldwide family of his worshipers. Through his organization he has lovingly provided an arrangement to assist us in walking before him in a righteous way. Even if a family member deliberately practices sin and must be expelled from the congregation, there is a way back if he truly repents. This is illustrated by the following example:

    Elders had tried to help a person we will call Anna, but she turned to smoking, drinking, and drugs. She was unrepentant and did not remain in the congregation. Before long, however, Anna began to miss the loving fellowship of Jehovah?s clean congregation and prayed to him for help. She admits that she had not fully appreciated how much the elders care about those who stray. Anna began to attend the meetings again, and this led to repentance. Thereafter, she was accepted back into the loving and protective congregation. Once again, Anna is upholding Jehovah?s high standard of morality. She is grateful for the love shown by the elders and also remarks: "You have no idea how much help Christian publications have been to me. Jehovah certainly does look after our needs well."

    Yes, God has provided a way back for those who have been expelled from the congregation but later repent. We have seen that even disfellowshipping itself is a loving provision. But how much better it is to avoid this sad experience by always sticking to the righteous ways of our holy God! May we ever be grateful for the privilege of praising Jehovah as a part of his clean, loving, and protective organization.

    [Picture on page 26]

    Are you showing love to faithful relatives of those expelled from the congregation?

    http://www.douknow.net/jw_manual1.htm Here is the link to the "Paying attention to the Flock" Elders manual, read it.

  • AlmostAtheist
    AlmostAtheist
    I understand the Elders manual says that family will not be disfellowshipped for communicating with disfellowshipped ones. For instance the Elders told my ex-husband he can have contact with our disfellowshipped oldest son, so long as it is not of a spiritual nature.

    Is this for real? If so, that would be awesome, Gina might not have to lose access to her parents. Do you know where this has been published?

    I flipped through the elders manual sections under 'kicking people out' and didn't see anything.

    Thanks for your help!

    Dave

  • googlemagoogle
    googlemagoogle

    afaik it's always been like that. talking to disfellowshipped family members was more or less ok, until recently (last year?) when they published a "good example" in the kingdom ministry, about a couple shunning their mother and telling her they wouldn't visit her nor talk to her until she'd come back.

    we all know they don't write examples just as an example but as a rule... it still aint that much of a problem contacting disfellowshipped relatives, but some congregations probably handle this more rigorously.

  • Fleur
    Fleur

    Purposes served by disfellowshipping:

    Upholds Jehovah's name and standard of righteousness.
    (Acts 15:14; 1 Pet. 1:14-16; compare Isaiah 52:5.)

    Protects the purity of the congregation. (I Cor. 5:1-13;

    May correct the unrepentant wrongdoer, bringing him to
    his senses. (2 Cor. 2:6-8)

    That's from the Elders book. That is the basis they use to justify it.

    I found this interesting personally since I wrote a DA letter before they DF'd me...

    It will not be necessary for a committee to continue the
    investigation into alleged wrongdoing if the accused per-
    son makes known his decision to disassociate himself.
    (w84 7/1 p. 31 )

    I guess being the PO's daughter in law, with his son wanting to be able to re-marry in a KH they were going to 'fire' me even if I 'quit' beforehand *rolling eyes*

    My thing is, how they get to decide if a person is repentant enough or not. The whole issue just...makes me totally nauseated.

    I'm sorry you and your sister are having to deal with this issue :( Believe me, I can relate. My family (99% of it anyway) chooses to take the hard line and not talk to me at all, period. Even though it's a conscience matter.

    What they don't realize is that in the beginning, if they had been kinder and listened to me when I explained why I was doing what I was doing, and supported me getting out of an abusive marriage, I would have done all I could to get reinstated right away. But by showing me the true colors of their brand of christianity, they not only poisoned me against the WTS but also Christianity in general, and now I'm agnostic.

    Great results of their loving kindness in shunning me, eh? I guess I'm better off. Sad to say I know some of my relatives would have preferred I had committed suicide instead of leaving the organization and the marriage, which was my first plan, than get df'd because then i'd have a chance for a resurrection.

    But I'm glad that I'm here to raise my child, and in a way so she won't ever be a part of their sickness.

    hugs

    fleur

    edited to add this: man this really makes me sick. Take special note of the last paragraph.

    _ How funeral arrangements for a disfellowshipped person
    may be handled:

    If the disfellowshipped person had been giving evidence
    of repentance, some brother's conscience might allow him
    to give a Bible talk at the funeral home or grave site.
    However, the Kingdom Hall should not be used. (w81
    9/15 p. 31; w77 6/1 pp. 347-8)

    If the deceased still advocated false teachings or ungod-
    ly conduct, it would not be appropriate to give a
    funeral talk for him. ( 2 John 9-11 )

    Keep in mind that all the related hardships and tests
    generated in this regard are an outgrowth of the wrong
    conduct of the disfellowshipped person

    Way to blame the dead person! Geez! I thought that the wages of sin was death and that those who had died were acquitted of their sins??? So much for comforting 'loyal' jw relatives. Can you imagine? they'd say "Well sister Faithful I wish I could do the talk for your son but you know, he was an unrepentant smoker and so the grief is being brought on you by him. Sorry."

    I'm glad they wouldn't ever do a talk for me if I died, who wants their funeral to be a commercial for the WTS? I certainly DON'T!

  • Balsam
    Balsam

    ALMOST ATHEIST

    =====================================================================================================================

    Here is the comment from the Elders Manual page 102:

    The principle set forth in Jesus' words at Matthew 10:
    34-38 has a bearing on situations involving disfellow-
    shipped or disassociated relatives.

    Special and difficult problems may arise in relation to
    social gatherings.

    Loyal worshipers of Jehovah will want to adhere to the
    inspired counsel at I Corinthians 5:11.

    Normally, a close relative would not be disfellowshipped
    for associating with a disfellowshipped person unless there
    is spiritual association or an effort made to justify or
    excuse the wrongful course.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    But note that this warning is given on the same page:

    We need to be especially cautious about contact with
    disfellowshipped persons who have apostatized and
    those who continue in their immoral conduct. (Titus 3:
    10, 11; 1. John 2:19)

    These can contaminate the congregation like gangrene.
    (2. Tim 2:16-18)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So long as the disfellowshipped or disassociated person does not speak apostate teachings to the active witness then there is some leverage given to talking to them.

    My son does not put down the WTS to his Dad and his Dad does not ask him how he views the society. Now my youngest son is facing disfellowshipping and I'm sure it will be handled much the same. My youngest son was caught smoking by his Dad. He's 17 so not talking to him is not something he can't do because he is a minor and would face charges of abuse if he did by me turning him.

    Balsam

  • AlmostAtheist
    AlmostAtheist

    Thanks Balsam, that's just what I was looking for!

    But if that's what the manual says, then why are so many "close relatives" being shunned?

    Dave

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