What's your opinion?

by MelbaToast 13 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  MelbaToast

  Taken from the journal Families and Society 84 no. 4. Cults and Families

  My take: although JW's are not fully accepted as a cult in psychology or sociology (JWs are listed as an "established sect"), this article has many points that have interested me. I want opinions, thoughts, etc from anyone that cares to respond. Thanks for your help!

  Melbatoast

  Article Excerpt:

  Developmental theories state that part of growing up involves beginning to question the status quo, or what the child has been raised believing. This questioning enables maturing children to sort out what they believe versus what their parents believe and what their values are versus what those of their parents are. This process supports the individuating self. In cult situations, both children and adults recieve punishment for questioning the group, and children learn to suppress autonomous thinking. As a consequence, childrens cognitive development is stunted.

  Do you think that your cognitive development was stunted? What was the first instance you remember of questioning a belief ( to either a parent or someone in the congo?
• 

  Terry

  Science produces manifold benefits; it works. Why? It is self-correcting. Like a high wire walker tilts this way and that to maintain balance; the scientist seeks to test his hypothesis rigorously to weed out what is false.

  Even the old school of hard knocks (i.e. the brute force method) is self-correcting as long as we learn from our errors.

  Not so with religious beliefs that are insular.

  When you cannot self-correct you LIVE IN ERROR. Is this so bad if you are socially enwrapped with reinforcements? Yes! Wrong views produce consequences.

  Nobody, not even cultists, can escape the laws of CAUSE and EFFECT.

  The ignorant live ignorantly and pay the price. Thinking rationally is a skill set. Without developing skills the human mind becomes dependant. This dependency is reinforced by fears.

  The Cults use fear and control to maintain their power base.

  My opinion is this. When I was a JW I thought I was rational. Like a sleeper who dreams he is awake my slumber continued until I fell out of bed. Which is to say life slapped me awake and I had to deal with my mess.

  Being ignorant and enfolded in the loving arms of your fellow religious minions works only as far as it works. Then it fails miserably. Among JW's the support system fails utterly to protect people in real trouble from illness, abuse, mental problems, depression and disease. There is no safety net. The balance cannot be maintained. The plunge is lightning fast and entirely devastating. It can cripple you for life emotionally. It can kill you outright.

  The human "self" of the individual MUST grow to thrive and survive. The traces of this you find among JW's is the "secret life" that so many witnesses live in schizoid compartments within their own mind. It is neurotic, duplicitous and unhealthy.

  The only escape is to actually escape. Leave. Break contact. Start over and reprogram your own mind by self-assertion. You have to build your mind from scratch to weed out the poisonous doctrines, lies, half-truths, emotional weeds and crippling fears.
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  MelbaToast

  The traces of this you find among JW's is the "secret life" that so many witnesses live in schizoid compartments within their own mind. It is neurotic, duplicitous and unhealthy.

  Exactly, Terry!

  Yet how times where you chided from the platform to not lead that "double life"??? Therefore, can it be said that the cultish ways of the WTBTS was hindering real cognitive thinking from childhood?
• 

  seeitallclearlynow

  For years I disagreed with turning in a "Field Service Report" in view of the scripture that says not to let your left hand know what your right hand is doing and in view of the fact that an almighty god would know exactly what each "servant" was doing for him.

  I also disagreed for many years about the extent the congregation is expected to go to shun certain people, and got around it as often as I could.

  I disagreed that there should be titles for people who chose to "do more" such as "pioneer".

  I disagreed with how much we were subtly encouraged to constantly judge each other, while in the same breath usually we were "admonished" to love each other MORE. Talk about double speak and messing with your head.

  I disagreed 100% with the way they ALWAYS discouraged a college education, and would "allow" for "Trade School" WITH CONDITIONS.

  I disagreed that an all knowing Creator would change his teachings all the time, like he didn't know what was what. But that feeling didn't kick in till many years into the JW life for me.

  But of course, it took decades till I realized it was not only OKAY to question these things, but necessary. Up till then, I just assumed I didn't belong in the congregation and I was there by some mistake and would ultimately be destroyed. But that thought did not bother me at all. I always felt that "Jehovah" tended to destroy people quickly and besides there are MANY ways to die a horrible death without "god" doing it. So what difference did it make?
• 

  Terry

  Melbatoast opines:

  The traces of this you find among JW's is the "secret life" that so many witnesses live in schizoid compartments within their own mind. It is neurotic, duplicitous and unhealthy.

  Exactly, Terry!

  Yet how many times where you chided from the platform to not lead that "double life"??? Therefore, can it be said that the cultish ways of the WTBTS was hindering real cognitive thinking from childhood?

  This is recursive.

  It is not unlike the brutal parent who lashes their child with a belt while remonstrating "Stop crying or I'll strike you again".

  The purpose of religion is to benefit the human who is incapable of helping himself. And yet, that is exactly what the human has demanded of him. The faithless must practise faith. The sinner must not sin. The unbeliever must believe. In other words; be and do what you aren't and cannot.

  In my view (my personal opinion) religion is an attempt by the self to do what it is impossible for the self to do FOR itself. As a consequence the unable self PROJECTS an identity outward that it can pray to and beseech for aid. Ironically, this very thing is embodied in that old saying you've heard many times "the Lord helps those who help themselves." This is literally true because "the Lord" is what the self projected outward to begin with.

  The unintended consequence of this boot-strapping is that the individual person becomes prey. The believer is preyed upon by people who wield the power to PRONOUNCE with authority what that "Lord" requires of you. They know full well you will most often fail and that will make you even more vulnerable because you become more helpless and in need of MORE HELP (that won't come either.)

  This addiction to Authority is endless.

  It doesn't matter what the cult leaders tell you to do. They are NOT in touch with a higher power and their phoney misrepresentations are bogus. You will lose yourself and suffer the consequences all the while feeling it is your own failure to be faithful.

  Bah!
• 

  undercover

  In cult situations, both children and adults recieve punishment for questioning the group, and children learn to suppress autonomous thinking. As a consequence, childrens cognitive development is stunted.

  I couldn't agree with that more. I've read so many experiences on this board how those of us raised in the borg were slow to develop in certain areas. I remember feeling behind everyone my age at school, like they matured faster. I was socially inept for many years after high school. I could go on. This quote makes good sense to me.
• 

  Elsewhere

  Yes, I would say I was affected by this to a great extent. It has literally taken me years to learn how to exert myself as opposed to following my training to just subject myself to an authority.

  When I was a JW, I literally did not know that I had the right to exert my will. I always looked at the elders and wondered what "special something" they had that gave them the right to direct and lead others. It isn't that I did not want to... I just did not know that I was permitted to.

  This actually posed a problem as I was given more responsibilities in the congregation. I had responsibilities, but I did not know that I had authority to fulfill my responsibilities. As an example: leading a field service group. I knew that this position entailed directing people to work certain areas and coordinating their actions, but I did not feel as though I was authorized to tell people what to do. I'm sure you can imagine how this resulted in disaster and some looks of disrespect from the sisters.

  Over time I have learned to exert my will and to compel others to do things... but I can tell that I still have a way to go.
• 

  seeitallclearlynow

  Recursion

  From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

  In mathematics and computer science, recursion is a way of specifying something (usually a mathematical object or part of a computer program) by reference to itself. More precisely (and to dispel the appearance of circularity in the definition), "complicated" instances are defined in terms of "simpler" instances, and the "simplest" instances are given explicitly.

  Terry, I was just going to tease you about using the word 'recursive' , but I liked what you said so much, that I'd rather quote your words instead:

  The human "self" of the individual MUST grow to thrive and survive. The traces of this you find among JW's is the "secret life" that so many witnesses live in schizoid compartments within their own mind. It is neurotic, duplicitous and unhealthy.

  This is such a good point! Please explain further: Do you feel it's almost impossible not to lead this "secret life" to a certain extent in order for the human "self" to exist as a JW? Or is it only "weak" people or "morally inferior" people who do this? Especially in view of the situation that exists for JW's as you stated:

  In other words; be and do what you aren't and cannot.

  The only escape is to actually escape. Leave. Break contact. Start over and reprogram your own mind by self-assertion. You have to build your mind from scratch to weed out the poisonous doctrines, lies, half-truths, emotional weeds and crippling fears.

  Such a good post, Terry. I'm saving it.
• 

  Granny Linda

  Yes, thank you, Terry for your post.

  That's one reason my tolerance level for non-action individuals is not so good. Sometimes I want to shake people in the hopes that they will awaken to their inner strength and find all those wonderful qualities we really do have. And then I remember from whence I came...people will only find their inner strength when they make a decision to change.

  GL
• 

  MelbaToast

  The only escape is to actually escape. Leave. Break contact. Start over and reprogram your own mind by self-assertion. You have to build your mind from scratch to weed out the poisonous doctrines, lies, half-truths, emotional weeds and crippling fears.

  That is exactly what I had to do terry, and Im sure many would agree that that is the first step in rebuilding esteem, so we don't think that we are "weak" or inferior, when in fact our minds are stronger and more adaptable to critical thinking.

  BTW, once I left, my mental capacity to tolerate different ideals in all standpoints grew and continues to!

  Thank god for our brains!