Do you believe in the paranormal? (page 2)

Terry

It is, alas, a cause and effect universe. When we don't see or can't figure out what precedes an "effect" it becomes mysterious to us. Our imagination does the rest. The more creepy the explanation the more thrilling it is to believe.

People who tell their mysterious stories generate immediate interest and they are the focus of rabid attention. Like the fisherman who has a fish story to tell, the details become slightly embellished over time. Others retell the story and make it more and more interesting.

Then, before you know it you have something really special. But, unprovable.

Have you ever had a really thrilling magic trick "explained' to you for how it really works?

Isn't it incredibly mundane and disappointing?

Yes.

That is why we prefer the legend to the truth. Life is mundane enough without losing all the thrilling parts.

To answer the question posed directly: Do you believe in the paranormal?

I don't even believe in the Normal!

The normal is like a pond with an average depth of 4 feet. The paranormal is the 6 foot drop in the middle that drowns you.

Terry

funkyderek says:
The problem with paranormal events is that they tend to happen unexpectedly so it is kind of hard to have witnesses lined up to observe.
The same is true of earthquakes. Hard to find someone who doesn't believe in them, though.

Ahh, but the difference is that EVERYBODY experiences the event at the same time.

Paranormal events have vanishingly small witnesses with conflicting opinions.

target

I remember Dateline doing a show on this subject, I think almost 20 years ago. It was so impressive that I never forgot it. It had to do with a Toys R Us store where employees complained about the goings on in the store and feeling the "presence" of something and little weird things happening throughout the day. Dateline arranged for infra red cameras to be set up and filmed what went on during the night. The film clearly showed several "spirits" moving about and moving merchandise and piling it in the isles and what not. They were not whispy images, they were quite clear and the whole thing was quite documented. They investigated the history of the location of the store but I no longer recall what they found out.

I did have an experience over 30 years ago that frightened me so that I remember it as clearly today as back then. I was sitting reading in the evening when I "felt" a presense and looked up to see a spirit standing in front of the front door observing me. I was getting a real evil type feeling. Seconds passed as we stared at each other and then I heard the low growl and I saw the spirit turn his face to look at the dog. I looked at my dog, a german shephard, and saw him staring at the spirit also and he had all the hair on his back and neck standing up and he had this low, menacing growl going. I looked back at the spirit just as he vanished. I was a long time before I could even move. I was just newly studying with the JWs so of course it was chalked up to demons. I would have written it off as my imagination if it weren't for the dog. To this day I do not know why, how or if. No documentation, nothing I can prove, and no desire to prove it to anyone anyhow. It does not much matter if others do not beleive it. It did not involve them. I just hope that spirit dude does not know we moved to Arizona. But then again, maybe the dry heat would evaporate him.

Target

CaptainSchmideo

James Randi has been on the forefront of bull$%^ detection for at least 30 yrs.

He is professional magician who was tired of seeing people like Uri Geller make fantastic claims about their abilities, which were simply magician's tricks. He would show up as a surprise guest on talk shows when Geller was on the show, and duplicate his metal bending trick easily, exposing him as a fraud.

His big concern, as was Carl Sagan's and others, is that we as a society should not be retreating backwards into superstitious beliefs,or let ourselves be taken advantage of by hucksters and quacks who sell very expensive "power crystals," "ionized water," "magno bracelets" for health benefits, and things like "healing procedures" that delay people from getting real help for serious diseases, things like "knifeless surgery" for instance.

You wanna believe that you have a poltergeist in you house, fine. You wanna charge $100 for an ounce of magic beans that cure cancer, he his going to call your bluff, and try to do it publicly, so that you can't fleece people that shouldn't be spending money that they don't have.

I admire the guy. Cranky, smart-alecky, and nobody's fool. I wish there was a way he could take on the WTBS.

funkyderek

I remember Dateline doing a show on this subject, I think almost 20 years ago. It was so impressive that I never forgot it. It had to do with a Toys R Us store where employees complained about the goings on in the store and feeling the "presence" of something and little weird things happening throughout the day. Dateline arranged for infra red cameras to be set up and filmed what went on during the night. The film clearly showed several "spirits" moving about and moving merchandise and piling it in the isles and what not. They were not whispy images, they were quite clear and the whole thing was quite documented. They investigated the history of the location of the store but I no longer recall what they found out.

This is the kind of thing that would easily win the million dollar prize. Not only that, but it would provide the first real incontrovertible proof of the existence of spirit creatures. If these creatures can actually be observed under infra red light and appear on film, there would be no problem replicating this experiment and even amateur ghost hunters should be able to get good shots (especially with modern night-vision goggles and cameras). Unfortunately, I can find no record of this show. It doesn't mean it never happened, just that nobody but you remembers it. That seems surprising, given the enormity of the subject. Think about it. The very first proof in all human history of the existence of ghosts, it was shown on a primetime television show, and nobody remembers it but you. How do you explain that?

Mulan

I am not sure. I've had several unexplainable "weird" experiences, and I want to believe they are paranormal, but the mind is a complex thing and can play tricks on you and what you actually are seeing.

So .................I just don't know.

Many of my experiences are in dreams, and I later find out my dream was a real event. Mainly I dream about my ancestors, and when I research something I learn the dream experience was true. Example: I dreamed I was a child in my 7th great grandfather's family.................I clearly saw the house and the inhabitants of the house. Then one of my third cousins sent me a photo of the house, that still exists in Maine, with a few upgrades of course. Same house as in my dream, and I had never seen it before.

target

Funky

How do you know that "no one" but me remembers it? Just because you don't doesn't mean EVERYONE doesn't.

Just how many people have you asked if they remember it? I doubt that Dateline keeps a record of shows from that long ago. There is a particular episode from the old Art Linkletter show that I never forgot and when ever I tell about it, no one else ever remembers it. I guess that means it didn't happen either. So whether or not things really happened all depends on whether YOU remember it. And whether or not things are real or not depend on what YOU believe. And if You don't beleive it, then I must be lying. Like I said before, I really don't care if anyone believes me about what happened or not. I am not trying to sell anything or make money on it. There is nothing in it for me to make up such things. And I am not into trying to impress people. So if you want to argue about it, you will have to pick on someone else.

Target

funkyderek

How do you know that "no one" but me remembers it? Just because you don't doesn't mean EVERYONE doesn't.

OK, let me rephrase that. Nobody who does remember it has mentioned it on any of the 4 billion web sites searched by Google.

I doubt that Dateline keeps a record of shows from that long ago. There is a particular episode from the old Art Linkletter show that I never forgot and when ever I tell about it, no one else ever remembers it. I guess that means it didn't happen either.

No, it probably happened but wasn't particularly memorable for most people. If this event happened, it would be bigger than the moon landings. Everybody would know about it. Paranormalists would pull it out in every debate with skeptics, demanding that it be explained. At the very least, the footage would be on a web site somewhere.

Here's an example which might help you see how memory works. Do you remember what was in the news on May 16th, 1998? I sure as hell don't. How about September 11th, 2001?

And whether or not things are real or not depend on what YOU believe.

No, as much as possible it's the other way around. Whether or not I believe something depends on what is real.

Like I said before, I really don't care if anyone believes me about what happened or not. I am not trying to sell anything or make money on it. There is nothing in it for me to make up such things. And I am not into trying to impress people. So if you want to argue about it, you will have to pick on someone else.

I'm not saying you don't really believe it. I'm just questioning how such an earth-shattering event could go by unnoticed by almost everybody. The explanation that makes the most sense to me given the available evidence is that you are mistaken in your recollection.