Is Imperfection the same as Sin?

by jgnat 52 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Narkissos

    As I said, I don't believe that "perfection" and "imperfection" as used by the WT are Biblical concepts at all.

    I think "imperfection" is just an original (cultic) rephrasing of the classical Christian dogma of "original sin" (which btw is not identical to the uses of the word "sin" in the Bible). I fail to see any true conceptual difference between the two doctrines. The WT version is just shallower as usual (the same could be said of "ransom" vs. "redemption"). "Imperfection" sounded as a more modern and apparently understandable word in the technical age of the late 19th and early 20th century. Religious concepts reflect the time of their creation.

  • teejay
    As for the animals, they weren't meant to live forever. Dying, for them, was part of the plan
    I'm not so sure about that. Were animals in the habit of dying before Adam was forced to leave Eden? Were there any ferocious animals that lived inside the Garden of Eden? I would think not, on both counts. I see no reason for assuming that the animals were created to die.

    So every animal AND every human to ever live would still be alive? I guess!!

  • under74

    jgnat- listen to Narkissos. Don't fight with him...I'm pretty sure he knows what he's talking about. How do I know this? I have to look up a lot of the words he seems to use naturally. He's pretty smart. He keeps making good points...I'd say he's winning no matter what you say after. Schizm-I know you can't help what you do in your sleep....but when I tell you over and over to stay on your side of the bed, you better damn well do it.

  • Narkissos

    LOL @ under74!

    I don't mean to fight!

    You know there is often a problem with us French trying to speak or write in English: because French has a popular derivation from Latin, the "difficult" Latin-English words are those we use most naturally.

    Btw I have at least something in common with Schizm: I snore too! (But here it's over 3 pm).

  • jgnat

    Under74, you crack me up! Was I fighting? I hadn't noticed. I mentioned at the top of this thread that this is a concept I had not worked through. I am laying bare how I work things out, and inviting others to join in. Narkissos leaves much to think about, he is adding and weaving in to my conceptual frame.

    Schizm, I am most impressed that you stayed the course with this discussion. Brother Beyond, where are you?

    Little Toe, I figure I will come close to your definition in the end.

    Now *sigh* I have to look up Original Sin.

  • jgnat

    See, we're NOT fighting! So there! My honey says I snore, but I have witnessed no evidence to his assertion. One witness rule, I am in the clear!

  • under74
    under74 long as you're not fighting-by all means proceed.

  • Flash

    Sin is Lawlessness (1John 3:4) Our being imperfect is our hard wired inability to adhere to God's Law without deviation. So yes, imperfection and sin are one and the same.

    If I might add;

    Sin = Lawlessness = Chaos = its nature. That is, I believe, why "God is a God not of disorder but of peace" 1Corinthians 14:33. Also, the Order, the Law of God is Love. God never does anything unloving (like lie) because, I believe, it would be self destructive.

  • jgnat

    Flash, by example and by definition, I have concluded that sin and imperfection are NOT the same. Sin is worse, because it is a willful choice. For instance, a child can make a bed imperfectly, but the act is not sinful. That same child, having a screaming tantrum in the middle of the bedroom floor because HE DOES NOT WANT to make the bed, is far worse than imperfect. It is willfull rebellion.

    Narkissos has added to my thoughts that the idea of perfection, or trying to reach an ideal, are completely different concepts from OT to NT, and between Peter and Paul. I can be corrected on this, but at least one stream of Christian thought, the Gnostics, attributed a heavenly perfection to Jesus. So strong were they on this doctrine, that they refused to believe he had an earthly (imperfect) body.

    Now...back to my search on Original Sin.....

  • jgnat

    The catholic definition:

    Another article, from a wordy age:

    (I wonder what it would have been like to sit through THAT sermon.)

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