Question regarding your faith in God or not.
I was wondering about different people on the forum. I was raised a JW since birth but never had one ounce of spirituality. I did the fade and have been out for years. My family however was for the most part intrenched. Many times people refer to people who believe in religion as weak or needing something in thier life. I have found out all the lies of the Watchtower over the past year. I am now however very involved with reading and researching the bible. I am very lucky in the way my life as gone. I read of others on this forum and my heart truly breaks for all of you with different situations(etc. family,monetary,relationships). I however don't have that. I now believe in God and call myself a Christian. I do not look at anyone at all and judge them. I read all the different information everyone post and honestly sometimes it is very confusing for me , but I love it. And please don't view me as another one of those religious nut's because I am not. I can party with the best of them, I don't go along with any of thier judgemental views. I have just developed a love of reading the bible and trying to follow the commandment of love thy neighbor. FINALLY YOUR ALL SAYING!! My question is to those who now do not believe in God or the bible.
Did you attend any other religious type groups since leaving JWS or read the bible. What changed your point of reference.I read an incredible analogy on this site about cops who sit back while a woman is getting raped. After thinking about what I came away with is we view things from a time reference that does not exisit with God. I am not sure if anyone understands what I wrote but would love your input.
What was the cop/raped woman analogy?
I sort of started slipping toward atheism when I lost faith in the Bible. The Bible's (or JW's) idea of the pain in the world being some sort of universal once-and-for-all test of man's ability to rule himself was plausible enough at the time, but now I don't see any excuse for a god to see it all and not act immediately.
It's not a done deal for me, I could buy there's a god if shown sufficient evidence. I just haven't seen it yet. Lack of evidence doesn't prove it isn't true, though. I certainly don't feel like the idea of god has been disproved.
I guess this didn't help much. :-( But maybe it'll get the ball rolling!
I hold that once you've made that "connection" and realise the love of God, the "big two" come spontaneously.
Loving God passionately from the heart, etc., and loving your neighbour as yourself.
I've merrily experimented with many places of worship, and find something enjoyable in pretty much them all.
Do some need religion out of weakness? It's an often touted phrase from those who no longer belive in any particular manner. Methinks they miss the purpose of it. Most just trot out the cliche without any experience of what they are talking about, which amuses me no end.
Of course that's not negating the fact that perhaps some do use it as a crutch, human nature being what it is, but I don't think that's the majority by any stretch of the imagination.
While I'm perfectly comfortable with my own spirituality, it's nice to supplement it with communal worship and hear other people's opinions. It augments, rather than dominates, your own ideas and passions.
I do believe in God, but in the more traditional Christian sense, as apposed to what the WTS teaches. I have enjoyed going to a few non-denominational church services, though I will certainly stay away from any church that tries to control ones life, such as the WTS does.
Every story differs of course.
When I was df'd for "apostasy" over 18 years ago, I was very religious. So I was soon associating with other churches, studying theology and working in Bible translation. This path gradually led me to a less and less "religious" and more and more "philosophical" stance. Now I don't believe in "God", or rather I don't think "God" is the right word for what I believe in. I have changed, and I have not changed. I don't deny anything of my past religious experience, I am just trying to find other ways of expressing what it means to me.
It's not important what people believe.
What matters is how people came to believe in one thing or another.
The only people who I find annoying in this respect are those who refuse to acknowledge problems with their belief system, whatever it may be (even if they believe more or less exactly the same thing as myself). I can tolerate them, but I'd find it difficult to form a real relationship.
No such thing as God in my opinion, when was the last miracle anyway! God was invented in a time when humanitys thought process was weak and imature.
I no longer believe in the bible god. I know that guy is just a myth.
As to whether there is a god that made everything that exist? There could be one but who knows,, if there is a god that made everything I really don't think he gives a rat ass whether you beleive in him or not,,why should he? The idea that you must have faith in god to get everlasting life is just something humans made up to promote belief thru fear,,it works to keep the churches alive and keeps people in subjection to them.
Pole, I find this statement profound:
What matters is how people came to believe in one thing or another.
That statement is setting me off in to all kinds of deep thinking. Are there people who fall in to a religion out of convenience? Can they survive a shakeup of their worldview, when life doesn?t match? One of my favorite quotes, which has brought me up short a few times:
Those who serve a cause are not those who love that cause. They are those who love the life which has to be led in order to serve it, except in the case of the very purest, and they are rare.---- Simone Weil
I now test my motive carefully.
What changed your point of reference.
To me the more meaningful question is do you have a point of reference? If so isn't your faith, belief or whatever very conditional, dependent on that point of reference? Somewhere along the line I had the epiphany that all thoughts are interdependent and relative, thus there is no point in looking for absolute truth there. If you hold one thought up as the point of reference, it's still the same as any other thought by its very nature.
This is not to say that all 'spiritual people' are only belief machines, however. Nevertheless any insight may be fused with certain belief structures, which only serves to limit the underlying spiritual intelligence if you ask me.
It's like this forum, we read posts from each other - but if you reduce the poster to the collective body of posts s/he has made on here it is only going to be part of the picture, not to mention how you interpret the information. Those who know some of the forum members in person can no doubt recognize that there is a lot more to the person, which may be more of a contrast when you meet them after having been acquainted with their posts online. The point is beliefs as a pointer is not to be taken in lieu of the real thing, you wouldn't collect road signs and argue over them but never actually go to the destination. And if you are 'there', (so to speak, again not to be taken literally) then why would you need any pointers? All such talk only amounts to a mental matter, not a spiritual one.
You ask about faith in God, I say try dropping all ideas about faith and God - if you actually do that you'll know what is left is not just a thought process.