The lords prayer

by Tim Horton 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Tim Horton
  • LittleToe

    Is that a question or a reminder?

    Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

    Matt.6:9-13 KJV

  • under74

    maybe it's conceptual and we're only supposed to think about the prayer.

  • foreword

    He left for his coffee break at Tim's, he'll be back to finish the topic later.......

  • hillbilly

    Tim Horton's wife---

    you are a bit to resolve the Lord's Prayer with the new system (tm)... just remember, what our Lord taught us to pray...(how to pray as a Christian) and the WT versions of heaven and paradise are really not connected.

    "Our Father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as in heaven".......... sorry, no "new system" there.

    Takes a while for the cognitive dissocence to mellow out when you leave the 'tower.

    Hill ( we are all pullin' for you guys)

  • foreword

    ..........thy will be done on earth as in heaven"

    At the time, when Jesus suggested we pray this, Satan was still in how could his will be done in heaven with satan there.......Hmmmmmmm

  • Beans

    He's stuck at the drive through window, a heard of JW's just walked into the store pretending to be in field service!


    Canadian District Overbeer

  • Narkissos

    I finally found where this thread comes from!

    The initial question by "Tim Horton's wife" was:

    Maybe you can help me about the Lord's prayer. Thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. If there isn't a new system, then what does that mean?

    The often quoted traditional Jewish parallel (qaddish) was probably what Shoshana (LaCapra) was referring to. It reads:

    Heightened and hallowed be his great namein the world he created according to his will.And may he establish his kingdom in your life and in your days
    and in the life of all the house of Israel,
    very soon and in the coming season.
    --And you say: Amen!Blessed, praised and glorified, raised, lifted up and revered, exalted and lauded be the name of him who is Holy, blessed be He!Although he is high above all blessings, hymns, praised and solace
    uttered in (this) world.
    --And you say: Amen!May our prayers and the supplications of all Israel
    be accepted by our Father, who is in heaven (abuhon di bishemmaya).
    --And you say: Amen!May there be abundant peace from Heaven
    and life for us and all Israel.
    --And you say: Amen!May he who makes peace in the heights make peace for us and all Israel!
    --And you say: Amen!

    Briefly, yes I think that the "Lord's prayer" originally belongs to the 1st-century Palestinian apocalyptic Jewish view (shared by both Pharisees and Essenes but rejected by the Sadducees) that this world (ha`olam hazzeh) was to be destroyed and replaced by the world to come (ha`olam habbah). In early Judeo-Christian interpretation it implied the parousia of the Son of Man, which was to occur in the time of the first disciples (Matthew 10,23), then was reported to some time "immediately after" the fall of Jerusalem (Matthew 24:29ff,34) and then sine die (Matthew 28:20, "I am with you always, to the end of the age."). The NT is full of such frustrated hopes for the near future, which had later to be interpreted differently as the world went on unchanged in its (simply historical) changes...

    Edited again to add: perhaps the readjustments we have to do when we exit the WT eschatology are not so different from those the early Christians had to do by the end of the 1st century AD...

  • Flash
    Maybe you can help me about the Lord's prayer. Thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. If there isn't a new system, then what does that mean?

    The prayer is proof that God's Kingdom will be a reality on earth. Jesus wasn't offering false hope.

  • Tim Horton
    Tim Horton

    Flash: I didn't quite understand your post. I'd like to hear more of your ideas. Thanks

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