I had a talk with my Bible study daughter tonight...interesting responses.

hubert

I called my daughter tonight, and after small talk, eventually asked her......

What would be the reasons a j.w. would get disfellowshipped?

She was very responsive, and gave me these answers.(These are not word for word, but are close enough to it).

Her..."For only serious sins, such as fornication or adultery".

Me... " Smoking?

Her... "Not sure".

Me...."What proof would they have if someone denied adultery"?

Her... They would have to have a person accuse them of doing it".

Me... "Suppose the accused person said they were innocent of that sin?"

Her... " The Elders will approach the informant and make sure of the accusation."

Me..."Is it like confession, as in the Catholic religion?"

Her... No, you don't have to confess to Elders, just to God". "If it's a serious sin, you can ask Elders for help with it".

Her..."They won't disfellowship a "weak" person, (such as) If they are trying not to do the sins anymore, but are having difficulty doing that".

Me...."Any other reasons for disfellowshipping, such as if you question doctrine?"

Her... "No other reason.... I ask questions all the time, and they answer them, or show me where I can find the answer in the Bible".

Me..."What about if the person is baptized already, can they still ask questions on doctrine?"

Her..."They won't get disfellowshipped for asking questions, even if they are baptised".

So, That's pretty well the whole conversation. Quite different than what I am used to hearing.

Is this the usual way that new Bible students are taught?

And how close is this to the real "truth"?

Your replies are very appreciated. Thanks.

Hubert

yeah, that's pretty much the extent of what bible studies know about disfellowshipping. They won't find out about the finer points, like for questioning or your question about those trying to stop sinning. Good question by the way.

Elsewhere

The problem is you are asking the wrong questions.

Don't ask is someone will be DFed for asking questions about doctrine... that is not a problem... even study conductors ask questions about doctrine... that is what a study is... questions and answers about doctrine. You have to ask her if a person can be DFed for disagreeing with the WTS and telling other JWs about the beliefs they have that are different from the WTS.

Also, she did not correctly answer the question of why a person gets DFed. The only reason a person can get DFed is for non-repentance for sin. This means that if a person commits the sin of apostasy for speaking or even thinking things contrary to the teachings of the WTS, they will be given the chance to repent. If the person does not repent and does not fully accept the teachings of the WTS they will be DFed. Regarding sexual sins, a person must convince the elder that he/she is repentant. If the elder is not convinced then the person will be DFed. The odds of a girl who gets preg from fornication being found "repentant" is basically nil. Elders LOVE to make an example of preg girls. I once saw a situation where two girls confessed to fornication at the same time... one got preg the other didn't. Guess who got DFed and who didn't.

blindfool

My mother in law was disfellowshipped for smoking. She started smoking as a teen in the 1930's. She was disfellowshipped sometime around 1988. She did stop smoking (for the most part I think) and was reinstated about a year later.

I've seen lots of repentant people disfellowshipped. My niece was caught with her boyfriend about 2 months before they got married. Both her and her boyfriend were disfellowshipped. From what I've heard she begged forgiveness from the elders but was told they had no choice. This was about 4 years ago.

My wifes cousin was disfellowshipped about 15 years ago after she confessed to the elders about an affair she had 10 years earlier.

My wife has another cousin that has lots of mental problems. He is in and out of mental hospitals all the time. They disfellowshipped him and the family is not supposed to have anything to do with him. Now mind you, the man is not much fun to be with, but his own brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts, nieces, nephews, are not supposed to have anything to do with him....His mother still takes care of him, but the rest of the family ignores him.

Your daughter may not believe these stories, I probably wouldn't either if I had not seen them for myself.

No Apologies

Me...."Any other reasons for disfellowshipping, such as if you question doctrine?"
Her... "No other reason.... I ask questions all the time, and they answer them, or show me where I can find the answer in the Bible".

Asking questions is not a problem, as long as you accept their answers.

No Apologies

heathen

Man these people make their own rules up . Don't confess sins is contrary to bible teachings . They love to play the game of accuse you of something then hope you confess it so it makes it look like somehow God is involved . They disgust me when I think about it . You should ask her , where in the bible does it say to observe a 6 month shunning period ?

TheOldHippie

elsewhere, "The odds of a girl who gets preg from fornication being found "repentant" is basically nil."

Not so, elsewhere, we''ve had - and have - these cases in my area if not "frequently" then from time to time, and one cannot be as insistant on the "basically nil" - chance as you are. Mostly, in my area, they are NOT df'ed.

Sirona

Hubert,

They tell bible studies that the ONLY reason someone is df'd is if they're guilty of "serious sin" and are unrepentant.

That isn't true.

A person can be DF'd for:

Smoking (and not being able to stop)

Drinking too much (not necessarily being alcoholic but getting drunk on a few occasions and being found out by the elders)

Fornication or adultery (and even if you say you are repentant there is a decent chance you'll still be DF'd. If you're not DF'd you are named and shamed by a public announcement that you are "reproved" which tells all the congregation that you're a serious sinner. This applies in any case of DF'ing offence where the person is deemed repentant)

Staying in a house with a member of the opposite sex overnight (if you are not married to them). (I've seen ppl DF'd for that because the elders say that its "circumstantial evidence" of fornication, and if you deny it they don't believe you and take that as non-repentance)

Up until recently you could also be DF for taking a blood transfusion, but they changed that because of human rights laws and court cases. They now say its a "conscience matter" to have blood.

Apostacy: this is not agreeing with the "society" on doctrine and being vocal about that. Or you might just be pointing out something previously published by the WBTS that they don't want you to point out. (e.g. if you printed out their own article on not having an organ transplant and distributed it they'd see you as an apostate, despite the fact that all you are using is a copy of their own publication from the 1950's)

About not DFing weak people, that is bull, because I've seen weak people DF'd who were really sorry for their sins but who were finding it difficult to stop the behaviour.

Sirona

I'm sure there are other things you can be DF for.

hubert

Thanks, Odrade, for your supporting response.

Elsewhere, I can see now that I had that wrong. I'll try to talk to her again about it, and this time ask I'll about disagreeing with the w.t. policies, whether that's grounds for disfellowshipping.

Blindfool, I didn't know you can still get disfellowshipped for smoking. Is that policy still in effect? From what you are saying, it looks like you have to (or are made to feel guilty of if you don't), tell the elders of ANY sins that you commited during your lifetime. Am I interpreting this right? As for the stories on this forum, I believe 99 percent of them, because I am getting to know you people so well because of this forum and because of the way you respond to people on this forum, that you can't be making this up. What would you get out of it, anyway? And so many stories? It just has to be true. So, I'm hoping that someday my daughter will read some of these posts and see the real truth about the W.T. from them. In the meantime, I am going to do all I can to sway her, also.

Heathen, I think most Elders like to play God, and that's why they enjoy "squeezing" these sins out of their "sheep".

Sirona, what about if a girl stays over a mans house overnight, if it started out as a party, and it was very late and there were other friends staying there also? Would that stiil count?

How can they justify disfellowshipping a person for looking up their own material and using it? It doesn't make sense, but I'm sure they still do it. I just can't understand it.

The "conscience matter" to have blood... Is that for human blood? When did they change this doctrine, Sirona?

Thanks for your info, friends....Hubert

Hubert

ESTEE

They love to play the game of accuse you of something then hope you confess it so it makes it look like somehow God is involved . They disgust me when I think about it . You should ask her , where in the bible does it say to observe a 6 month shunning period ?

Elders on a power trip, IMHO ...

ESTEE

I had a talk with my Bible study daughter tonight...interesting responses.

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