by Terry 38 Replies latest jw friends

  • El blanko
    El blanko

    Hmmm... all sounds familiar and a typical night in at one of my best friend's house who is currently disfellowshipped. We share a curry and debate into the night. Usually a fruitless exploration of each others belief systems.

    As long as we all except that we choose to believe a specific doctrine then there is rarely a problem.

    Dogmatism often gets in the way though

    Terry, if you pull the rug out from beneath your friend's feet, what will he have to firm his footing?

    He raised this particular issue with you by saying that, "Where else can I go to serve God?" I get this constantly with my friend and try as I will, I cannot get him to pick up the Bible and read the scriptures 'plainly'.

    The concept of 'one' mediator before God without an organization as a filter simply will not register and that to me is one of the main issues a person faces when attempting to reason with a JW.

  • dh

    Me: "So what exactly do you get out of going to the Kingdom Hall with its stupid elders, its changeable policies, it's false date-setting and constant evidence of being a false prophet?"

    Johnny: "My family and friends are there. I don't want to leave them."

    great post, it's crazy that he actually admits that only thing he gets out of going to meetings is that he would lose his family and friends if he didn't.

    your hostage scenario hits the nail on the head.

  • run dont walk
    run dont walk

    really enjoyed this, you made some great points

    Me: "And how long was it between "no more date-setting" in 1925 when Rutherford made an ass of himself and the setting of 1975?"

    Johnny: "50 years."

    lets not forget 1951/52 , so many miss this one

    Rutherford's original generation teaching was ... a generation was 30 - 40 years and since Christ died in 33 A.D. and since Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 A.D. that is just 36/37/38 years, so then we now Gods anger will unleashed against the world in less time. Then in 1951/52, Nathan Knorr and Freddie Franz came up with the new theory.

  • squinks


    Wow, Great Stuff now I have some great ammo for the next time I need it. I think your friend is very loyal and deeply appreciates his connections to friends and family. He is the sort of intelligent and unique individual who does not really belong in a religion which is mostly populated by drones who are unable to entertain original thought. But he truly is in a "hostage situation" and I am sure that if he could keep the people he loves he would gone.


  • Noumenon

    Very interesting (you must either have a photographic memory or you took a tape-recorder to breakfast with your buddy.)

    I can understand JW's objections when they say "but who else can I go to". It's easy for us to fliply say, "Why Jesus of course. You don't need an Org". The problem with that is that there was an organization of congregations in the 1st century. People didn't just sit at home alone and read the bible on their own in the 1st century Christian arrangement....they congregated together and preached to others. Association with other Christians is clearly set out in scripture. It's very hard to totally shake this reasoning in the JW mind.

    A better tack to take is to admit that some sort of organisation is logical for Christians and scripturally supported, but JW's cannot presently be the organization that God is using for other reasons, like you already touched on, eg, it is easily proved in their own publications that they set them themselves up as a prophet-class, a Jeremiah Class, a John Class, hence they are indeed modern-day prophets whether they like to admit it or not. And as the evidence clearly shows they have made false predictions in Jehovah's name. Also, Jesus said that by their fruits you will recognize them. The paedophilia, NGO association, harsh judgementalism and conduct at congregation level, mental problems, broken marriages and families, shunning, high suicide rates etc, lack of genuine love for non-jw's people except for starting bible studies, etc, etc, all show that the organization is producing rotten fruitage.

    Using these tactics to counter-act JW think can help a JW see that his religion simply cannot be the one true religion. To reinforce this you can suggest that perhaps Jehovah will create such an organization in the future that he will draw people to, but presently JW's simply cannot be that one true religion. Why not? Because they fail to meet the bible's own criteria, of producing good fruits, having true love, and not making false prophetic utterances. Point out Having some 'accurate knowledge' is not enough, because without love and good fruits etc the org is nothing more than a 'clashing cymbal'.

    So the JW can thus be helped to see that something is very faulty with the notion that there religion is the only true one that God is using today, using the bible's own criteria. Yet they can be helped to come to understand this epiphany without us having to attack the idea that an organization is not required at all, because the bible does not support that notion.

  • Terry



    This was very interesting! Thanks for sharing!

    PS -- do you mind if I pick your brain on some music theory books for composition?

    Only one book out there that is any good at all if you ask me. It is by William (Bill) Russo. Composing Music : A New Approach
    by William Russo

  • Terry


    Terry, if you pull the rug out from beneath your friend's feet, what will he have to firm his footing?

    The illusion is clearly there that PERSONAL freedom is not possible. Johnny has taken the WT bait. Without them he is lost. But, I'm on the verge of doing something rather rude with him.

    I will offer my own family as an example and compare it to his. I raised my children OUTSIDE of the Watchtower organization and I've had ZERO problems.(7 kids, mind you!) He raised his INSIDE the WT org and has had nothing but problems. All his kids are in Alcoholics Anonymous, they've been disfellowshipped/reinstated. His oldest daughter has told him she just does not believe the JW's have the truth.

    Johnny has had to work several jobs simultaneously to keep his head above water while his wife, Carol, has never completed high school or even held a single job in her entire life!

    Johnny has to lie to his different bosses so they don't know he is working for more than one of them at a time. Johnny has, in the past, stolen money from his parents to pay his bills. On many occasions people have extended loans to him.

    In other words, by following the Faithful and Discreet Slave's policies he ruined himself financially and as a family. If he prefers their medicine to being on his own--I can't pity him.

  • myelaine

    I read your account with intense interest. Please continue posting these!



    Me too, please do...

    You're right sometimes you can't just pity people any more, you gotta smack em..


  • Crooked Lumpy Vessel
    Crooked Lumpy Vessel

    Its amazing how a person can just believe in something without question. When I studied, I questioned things but I was only provided with biased WT rhetoric.

    I am glad to hear also that you did something besides work as a janitor or window washer. I heard some are starting to move towards the great career opportunities of landscaping.

    Thanks for sharing.

  • Terry

    None are so blind as those who will not see.

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