From JW to Atheist; Now, how do I face my family? (page 2)

AlmostAtheist

Hey Robyn,

>> Which do you think will be worse for your wife: The fact that you are now an agnostic/teetering atheist or the fact that you are leaving the witnesses?

You raise an interesting question. I think she will have strong internal opposition to the idea of there not being any deity. She's an artist, loves nature, and has often scoffed at the idea of evolution. Of course, so did I, so who knows? I don't know how she'll react, I really just don't.

Externally, though, she will surely have mucho trouble with the idea of being married to a non-Witness. I was DF'd once, and she spent months married to a DF'd person, though a "repentant" one. She didn't enjoy that and told me as much. I'm sure she'd enjoy even less being married to an "apostate". Hopefully, she'll at least leave the organization with me. Then we can do it more or less quietly, and not alienate her parents and family. The only sweating point on that score is the kids. "Gramma, why do you still go to the Kingdom Hall? Don't you know Jehovah is a myth?" Yeah, THAT would be fun to explain!

Good to meet you all. Thanks for the useful comments!

-Dave

patio34

Hi Dave,

Welcome and thanks for posting this thread. 3 1/2 yrs ago, I "woke up" and became an atheist in about a month or so. I've faded away, but only had two sons to explain it to not a spouse.

I don't have any advice, but want you to know I'm wishing good things for you. A good thing about being a non-believer" is that I don't have to convince anyone else. What they believe is their business, and mine is mine.

Congratulations on the upcoming birth!

Hugs,

Pat

AlmostAtheist

Hey Pole,

Yow, thanks for that excellent 'fading' thread! That was some great stuff. We lucked out and changed congregations recently, and lucked out further in that we don't actually live in the territory of that congregation. With the pregnancy, we haven't attended in months, and we've never gone out in service from there. So our fade could come quickly, if she'll join me.

-Dave

AlmostAtheist

Pat,

I enjoy the freedom of live and let live, too. It feels so good not to have everybody's 'eternal life' hanging in the balance every time I open my mouth, or fail to. I remember when I first started studying, I told my atheist father that it gave me a moral compass. He told me then, "I hope some day you can have the morals without the religion." Wow. When I can finally tell my wife, then I'll tell him. (My mom attends a church of christ, neither of my parents ever took to [I almost wrote 'the truth' -- funny] jw's)

-Dave

zen nudist

Before Religion there was ZEN !

indeed

garybuss

Being a realist and a skeptic is different than being atheist. Actually few of us ex-Witnesses are atheist. Many of us are skeptical of all claims of a superhuman nature until we are shown objective proof. We see the proof of human solutions working for human problems and have no blind faith in miracles. I am ready to accept any claim if I am presented with proof.

Proof is different from dogmatic claims like we saw the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation using. Proof is demonstrative and repeatable. Witness's belief in gods is as real to them as their belief in gravity. The only problem is, one can be demonstrated and repeated and one can not but they do not appreciate that.

Theism is a convenient means to avoid and deny realities like living and dying. One of the jobs of successful living is to accept the responsibilities of living and to accept death. Witnessism has developed theism into an institution, an industry. The served became the servers.

I don't confront the ideas of gods and goblins directly, I just ask to see the objective proof they exist if the topic comes up.

Agnostic means I don't know. I am agnostic on many subjects. Guess you'd have to say I am a comfortable skeptic and a revenant agnostic.

AlmostAtheist

Good point, Gary. I've never been presented with proof of the non-existence of a deity. I've seen many definitions of atheist and agnostic (just like "saved" and "born-again") and I'm sure I don't fit all the definitions.

I could buy that there's a disinterested deity sooner than I could buy a loving one. A loving one would have to do something about all the suffering. But a disinterested one could see it all as a lab experiment, like when we blind rats to see if they can still work the maze. I don't think I've ever seen proof of such a deity, but it wouldn't shatter me if I found out it was true.

As an agnostic, do you feel like there is a deity of some kind, you just don't know the kind? Or are you unsure a deity exists at all?

-Dave

doogie

I've seen many definitions of atheist and agnostic (just like "saved" and "born-again") and I'm sure I don't fit all the definitions.

why label yourself? why confine yourself to "Atheist" or "Agnostic" or "Religious"? i'm just a dude with common sense. that way you're always free to expand your viewpoint without the walls imposed by a label.

Nicolas

Personnally, if someone could give me a good proof of the existence of god, I'll take it.. But, for now I just believe that "god is a concept by which we measure our pain" like John Lennon would say.

garybuss

Dave, The detached deity concept is called deist. As a deist, I would have some good company. I believe I have never seen any proof of the existence of any gods or ghosts. There is a researchable history of the concept of gods. It is found is the philosophy section.

My outlook is mostly secular humanist and I am skeptical of all claims of a super human nature. A theist says, there is a god and I can prove it. An atheist says there is no god and I can prove it. They are opposite sides of the same coin. Both make unprovable claims. Both rely on logic and reason. Neither can demonstrate their case.

I mostly appreciate objective reality. I have never seen one human problem solved, one stomach filled by serious thought. Human needs and problems all require human solutions. If a person's reality is unbearable or unenjoyable enough they resort to fantasy to cope. When they can't cope with fantasy, they go into delusions and then into full blown insanity.

I think Witnesses who are true believers are in the delusion stage of a manufactured mental illness. You know how a sane person can be made sick just by being around a neurotic or delusionary person for a long period of time? That's how the Witness's constant reenforcement and repetition of their sick world outlook and terrible human relations practices works.

By constant association and ritual intake of sick thoughts we were victims of a form of manufactured mental illness. We were institutionalized and we suffer a post institutionalization disorder when we leave the group much like a prisoner after being released from prison.

A sick family (or high control group) always sees the one who gets healthy as the one who is sick. This is normal. Check out the story about the goose and let me know what you think. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/55403/808074/post.ashx#808074

My mistake was talking to my Witness relatives about anything religious or Witness related at all. I would not do that again. Their trained defense was personal retaliation and that broke rapport that remains broken. Nothing was gained by it. I am not a theist. I am an objective realist and they see that as a defect. That is a HUGE separation. I can never have a relationship of any kind with a person that sees dealing with reality in a pragmatic way as a weakness, a sin. It's a never win situation. It would be like going back to third grade to try to think like them again.

To Witness family and other mentally ill people, I think just be cordial, non confrontational, patronizingly agreeable, and humanly helpful. We have nothing to prove and we can't communicate with them on their level. We have nothing to offer them that they can accept except human help, and they can only accept that if we have rapport. So, I say keep rapport.

From JW to Atheist; Now, how do I face my family?

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