"The Age of Reason"

by onacruse 12 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  onacruse

  So let us begin, eh?

  I haven't read the whole book, so this thread will be a "work in progress":

  http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_of_reason/index.shtml

  However, even in just the first 10 pages I find one concord after another with how I now see our lives as a community of human beings.

  In the first chapter, Thomas Paine says:

  My own mind is my own church.

  Agreed.

  All national institutions of churches...appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and anslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

  Agreed, with the caveat that it's our own nature that makes us gravitate toward inventing, allowing, and eventually tolerating such systems, for the purpose of self-definition and personal validation.

  ...it is necessary to the happiness of man, that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe.

  Wow! But, then, if this is the correct perspective, then on what basis would any of us have the "right" to condemn a JW for being a JW? If they believe it, absolutely and positively, within their own heart, mind and soul, then how can we justify 'going after them' ? Perhaps a personal fault that I have myself fallen prey to.

  45 more pages to go.

  Craig
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  Odrade

  Thanks Craig... we "studied" (hate to use that word in view of how condensed it was...) "The Age of Reason" and "Common Sense" in High School. Geez, one can find ANYTHING online huh?

  Here's one of my favorites from "age of Reason"... in the Chapter on xtianity and nature:

  It seems as if parents of the christian profession were ashamed to tell their children any thing about the principles of their religion. They sometimes instruct them in morals, and talk to them of the goodness of what they call Providence; for the Christian mythology has five deities: there is God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost, the God Providence, and the Goddess Nature. But the christian story of God the Father putting his son to death, or employing people to do it, (for that is the plain language of the story,) cannot be told by a parent to a child; and to tell him that it was done to make mankind happier and better, is making the story still worse; as if mankind could be improved by the example of murder; and to tell him that all this is a mystery, is only making an excuse for the incredibility of it.

  Now, I'm no sage, but this struck me even as a JW... but even more so now, as the idea of "employing people to do it" is what finally shook my misplaced faith in that type of apocalyptic theology.

  I think it ironic though, that he spent so many words in his introduction railing against learning from dead languages and old literature. His own writings are 200 years and counting, becoming largely unreadable due to the changes in style, though the words are the same. Of course the same may be said for old Will too....

  .... rambling off into a rant about no one teaching reading comprehension anymore....
• 

  Odrade

  and btw, though he allows for the right of all to believe whatever he wants, it's not without bounds...

  But when a system of religion is made to grow out of a supposed system of creation that is not true, and to unite itself therewith in a manner almost inseparable therefrom, the case assumes an entirely different ground. It is then that errors, not morally bad, become fraught with the same mischiefs as if they were. It is then that the truth, though otherwise indifferent itself, becomes an essential, by becoming the criterion that either confirms by corresponding evidence, or denies by contradictory evidence, the reality of the religion itself.

  the damage is done, though each individual tenent held is not inherently immoral. The combination of ignorance and dogmatism does, in fact, do damage... as all of us here are well aware.
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  outbutnotdown

  Craig,

  There is a certain amount of truth, that humans need to be "faithful" to their own beliefs. However, unconditional love has proven to be a "better" belief system than hatred, for example. My point is simply that, despite the fact that the JW's believe that they are right and they therefore need to validate that thought to themselves, it is still a fact that they are missing out on a deeper happiness and it would still be "better" for them to get out, despite their denial of this.

  Brad
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  Farkel

  Craig,
  
  : 45 more pages to go.
  
  That's only part ONE. There are TWO parts to his book. Part one he wrote entirely from memory while in prison in France. He wasn't even allowed to have a Bible while in prison. Part two he wrote after he got out and was able to have a Bible handy to make sure of his references. In this part he demolished the entire Bible, almost book-by-book.
  
  Enjoy!
  
  Farkel
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  seven006

  Craig,

  I don't know if people here specifically "go after" JW's as opposed to go after the lies, manipulation, and life controlling whims of the JW leaders. As most of us here know, the average JW does not know what we have discovered about the JW machine. That's because of the fear of death the leaders have made them believe in, if they as much as attempt to learn about what we know.

  Belief in itself does not hurt anyone. It's the perverted actions based on those twisted beliefs that cause the problem. The leaders of the JW's threaten the life of their followers if they do not comply with their whims based on their individual interpretation of their specific and twisted belief. That is the same reason the Twin towers are no longer standing. Not because of a belief, but rather acting on a twisted interpretation of those beliefs by some of their more controlling and manipulative religious leaders.

  Dave
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  Mulan

  Reading that book is what made me finally question everything in the Bible. It brought up questions that my Bible scholar friends could not answer to my satisfaction. "Having faith" just doesn't cut it anymore.
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  Terry

  Belief is passive. What JW's do is very active indeed.

  People can believe what they want. But, when their beliefs become a virus that spreads and takes over the organism--am I to shrug and turn away?

  The virus Jw's carry is a system of thought and action capable of reproducing itself and usually capable of causing great harm to others. A true virus cannot spread to another without human assistance. Am I to assist?

  I think of myself as a link. I know what JW's are and what the toll is of being one. If somebody had been able to talk with me before I plunged in to their dark city of nightmares to discourage my error---what misery might I have missed?

  "There is a destiny that makes us brothers; none goes his way alone. What we send into the lives of others will come back into our own."

  I feel I can make that happen.
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  patio34

  Great read! Here's a couple of favorites from it:

  Thomas did not believe the resurrection . . . w/out having ocular and manual demonstration himself. So neither will I . . . pg 54

  The biblical use of word prophet really meant poet and musician. Thus, Saul was in concert with a company of musicians and poets and this was called prophesying. Deborah and Barak are called prophets, not because they predicted anything, but because they composed the poem or song. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are not called prophets. pg 62

  I don't think I ever finished the book, but it was well worth reading. Thanks for reminding me!

  Pat
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  jst2laws

  Craig,

  Thanks for the link. Now I don't have to buy it. I am reading "Freethinkers- A History of American Secularism" by Susan Jacoby but I think I will divide my time with "Age of Reason" before my next Amazon shipment comes in.

  Jst2laws