My ponderings on religion etc

by ballistic 10 Replies latest jw friends

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  ballistic

  Of course, we of all people know just how wrong you can be. Yes?

  So what about the rest of life outside of religion? Politics maybe, or just general life situations? Does the upbringing in a religion you leave behind make you more aware that there are two sides (or many) to every story. Or, can we take it further and say, everyone is actually right, in their eyes? Surely except for the most cold blooded doctor evil who pre-determines wickednes, even most criminals have a story to tell, a side to their story, like in any hollywood movie.

  It makes me wonder why so many people here have become politicised and sure they're so right after finding out everything you once based your whole life on was trash.

  My mind is open, at last.
• 

  MerryMagdalene

  "In the beginner's mind there are few possibilites. In the master's mind there are many."

  --Shunryu Suzuki Roshi

  My heartfelt admiration and applause that you are willing to consider the multitude of possibilities, realities, and viewpoints that exist within and around us all. I guess it isn't such "a small world after all"!
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  ballistic

  Thanks for your comments MM.

  I was also thinking how strongly people treasure their opinions,

  Now, my post doesn't mean I don't have opinions. But how strongly do you hold on to them for their own sake. Does our past make you question things (beliefs) a little more seriously, and in the cold light of day?
• 

  Terry

  I look at it this way. Life is mostly choices. The longer you delay choices the more imperative they become. The chief obstacle to decision making (intelligent decision making) is certainty.

  How much uncertainty can a person tolerate? That is what trying to see both sides of an issue entails; maintaining that "open mind" which delays certainty.

  I've noticed that people don't respect hesitancy due to that intellectual weighing process. People admire and tend to follow those people who seem certain, sure and unmovable.

  There is a cynical proverb that says: Just fake it! Pretend you know what you're doing and people will line up behind you. I fear that may be true.

  We look for a president who is rock certain. We look for a doctor who is unhesitating in his diagnosis and treatment plan. We crave the expert's advice.

  But, the older I get the more convinced I become that there are more than two sides to an issue. There may be more sides than can be considered.

  Religion is all opinon, no fact and self-deluding certainty. They have a different word for the certainty. They call it faith.

  For myself, life is an investigation process with tentative conclusions that are always subject to revision. But, I can make reasonably quick decsions based on consensus opinions of authorities I respect.

  I will never completely trust an absolute authority again in my life.

  We only hurt ourselves when we let go the steering wheel and let another mind take control.
• 

  onacruse

  Terry:

  For myself, life is an investigation process with tentative conclusions that are always subject to revision.

  Yes, yes, yes!!!

  When I joined this db, I chose my screen-name for exactly that reason, and have had no reason to regret it, and every reason to follow it.

  This is what life is! We question ourselves, question others, dialogue, learn, un-learn, offer our humble apologies, and continue to move on.

  In the back of my mind, I hear this little voice that says: "When will you all figure out that this is what I meant it to be, and created you to be; stop making it so complicated!?"

  On-a-cruise (through life)
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  ballistic

  Terry, thanks for your slant on this. I know you are a new poster but I already respect your opinions on various subjects.

  Well, I've got various feelings on what you said. For instance, I just started dating again, and I think women appreciate men who are confident in a certain way.

  What I was really talking about was the ability to analyse thought patterns. God forbid we leave a high control group to find ourselves forming similar dangerous thought patterns for some other cause, whatever that may be. And some people may not know they are doing it.
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  outbutnotdown

  Ballistic,

  Interesting point!! I had a cousin, who asked me, (when I said that I was leaving the JW religion because there were just things that I couldn't accept anymore), "isn't it nice to not KNOW EVERYTHING?!!" It was shocking,when I sat back and honestly analyzed my past, how close-minded I was. I am appreciative of the fact that "I KNOW" less and less every day, in an absolute sort of way.

  The interesting thing is that, as I have become less and less absolute, the more valuable and important things have become clearer and clearer for me: the simple joys found in my kids' laughter, their peaceful and worry-free times, and just an inner happiness that I think I would have been incapable of finding had I stayed in ANY high-control religion.

  Thanks for reminding me!!!!

  Brad
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  MerryMagdalene

  I've really been enjoying everyone's thoughts on this subject. I have tried really hard (not always successfully) to break out of those old rigid patterns that we do sometimes tend to bring with us after we leave those who taught and reinforced them... a sort of "you can take the Witness out of the Organization, but you can't take the Organization out ot the Witness" Syndrome. Fortunately it can be done and all begins with awareness and willingness. Here's another quote I like:

  "Security is mostly a superstition, it does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all!" --Helen Keller
• 

  jgnat

  Jehovah's Witnesses make lousy debaters. They learn one side, one dogma, one way to fight. The best debaters can take both sides of an argument and make a case. The best debaters in the end, get in the "head" of the opponent. That way, they get to know the weaknesses in both arguments, and develop strategies around it. I learned to debate in my teens, and it forever changed my take on the "truth". Everything can be questioned, my most precious beliefs can be scrutinized.

  If a Jehovah's Witness were an animal, they would be a lobster. All their strength is in their shell. Inside, they are as soft as putty.

  I like to think my strength of mind is internal, a skeleton. All my external softness is deceiving. Sure, I give on points that I can't defend.

  But.

  Try and get me on those points that I have proven, through practice, are strong. If I were a fruit, I think I would be a PEACH. Bok, bok, tough centre. Yes, I would go along with you, ballistic. Both sides can be argued about politics. Instead of spouting dogma, it would do well for both sides to get inside the head of their opponents. What are they fighting for? There must be some good stuff in there.
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  poppers

  "What I was really talking about was the ability to analyse thought patterns. God forbid we leave a high control group to find ourselves forming similar dangerous thought patterns for some other cause, whatever that may be. And some people may not know they are doing it."
  
  You are wise to see this and to consider the possibility that even those that are outside high control groups are subject to being misled. Most everyone doesn't see what is actually out there, but only a distortion of what's there due to the influence of thought. The mind is great for certain things but when it comes to realizing truth it fails miserably. But like in the movie The Matrix most everyone is soundly asleep because of a lifetime of taking the blue pill.
  
  There are no thought patterns that make the world 'right' - there is just the world, and all of our ideas of what that world is has nothing to do with its reality. Sounds to me like you are on the verge of waking up - by taking the red pill you will see the world without the distorting influence of thought, and then you will find true freedom.
  
  Such a radical break from the norm is rare, however, because to relinquish the illusion of control of the mind is threatening to one's identity. "If I drop my opinions, beliefs, and thoughts then who am I?", goes their thinking. People for the most part are all too willing to accept what others say because it relieves them of the burden of investigating for themselves who they REALLY are and therefore what the world really is.