I thought I'd share a bit of the book I'm reading...

by Surreptitious 22 Replies latest jw friends

  • Soledad
    Soledad

    agreed rem. you took the words out of my mouth.

    but let's say, for just a moment, that we do "move on." suppose that I decide to be a Catholic. Is it alright to still have doubts even after converting? can someone go back to the point where they were before? maybe as JWs we were conditioned to think that baptism is the end, so to speak, of our doubts, and that there is no going back. so maybe we're just all scared to make anymore commitments of that sort? believing in God=making a commitment=follow the rules=unhappiness?

    just my opinion. I hope it's not too puzzling

  • myauntfanny
    myauntfanny

    I wonder how he defines "philosphy of life". I'm not sure that the author and I would agree on the definition, but I think doubt could be a philosophy of life. I think it's mine. I have so often been so certain and subsequently found myself to so wrong that I'm really wary now. And I see other people walking around so sure of what everyone should do and how everyone should live, and all it seems to do is make them and everyone around them miserable. I have to agree with him though about immobility. Doubt immobilises me a lot. But I'm not sure that's intrinsically a bad thing. People rush into things and then when it turns out to be a mistake they have to justify and lie and evade to cover their asses, it all gets worse and worse, sometimes on a grand scale. People being a bit more immobile might solve a lot of problems and avoid a lot of others.

  • joannadandy
    joannadandy

    Syrup-

    Ahh yes...the book that everyone keeps telling me I should read...lol...once you finish lemme know if I should read it...heh heh!

  • Carmel
    Carmel

    Not having an answer is not the same as a "philosophy of doubt". All the time I was agnostic, I was in a state of wondering not doubting. Seems your author has never been to that place..

    carmel

  • Xena
    Xena

    I don't chose doubt, I chose hope.

  • NewSense
    NewSense

    To quote Wilson Mizener: "I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education." Since the time of the ancient Greeks, doubt has always served as a counterbalance to - a check upon - dogmatism and fanaticism. Just think, if only more Nazis had only doubted a little bit what they believed, then maybe some Jews would have been spared. This notion led Bronowski to proclaim at Auschwitz: "I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, know that you may be mistaken." When doubt is supressed or banished, that is when atrocities, such as the Holocaust and the pogroms, occur. Doubt is absolutely nescessary for tolerance and peaceful civilization to flourish, or even to exist. There absolutely must be doubt in both the political and religious spheres in order for a society or a civilization to enjoy calm. That is why religious fundamentalism is so dangerous in American society, or any other society. This is becasue both the religious realm and the political realm are areas of society where relative values should reign. By relative values, I mean a realization that various people have differing viewpoints. In my opinion, it is obvious in American society how religious fundamentalism has become a source of confusion in politics, precisely because religious fundamentalism and fanaticism both introduce their warped and intolerant absolutes into the realm of relative values. Religious fundamentalists everywhere are the enemies of democracy and civilization. A rational civilization can only be based on doubt - a hesitation in one's convictions that allows for tolerance and prevents a person from imposing his/her beliefs on others by means of violence.

  • Sirius Dogma
    Sirius Dogma

    NewSense,

    Great quote. Who is Wilson Mizener btw? I did a quick amazon.com search and didn't come up with much. I like what he wrote and might be interested in reading more.

    SD

  • NewSense
    NewSense

    Sirius Dogma - To tell you the truth, I myself don't know anything about Wilson Mizener, although I greatly appreciated his quote. I had never heard of Mizener until I read this quote in an article by Arthur Schlesinger entitled "The Opening of the American Mind" {which, of course, is an ironic allusion to Allan Bloom's book "The Closing of the American Mind"). This article of Schlesinger's is printed in a book entitled "The Fontana Postmodernism Reader," in a section dealing with religion in our postmodern age. If your interested in reading or ordering this book, the I.S.B.N. number is 0-00-686370-1 If your interested in this topic, then you might also want to read Armand Nicholi's "The Question of God," in which the author juxtaposes Freud's atheism with C.S. Lewis' Christian views. Although Freud and C.S. Lewis never actually met, what the author, Nicholi, does is to arrange a sort of imaginary "dialogue" between the two. This technique of contrasting two diametrically opposed viewpoints is an ancient one which goes back to the ancient Greek sophists.

  • patio34
    patio34

    New Sense, I hope you don't mind and apologize if you do, but I thought what you quoted was very thoughtful and added paragraphing to it for ease in reading (for me that is).

    To quote Wilson Mizener: "I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education." Since the time of the ancient Greeks, doubt has always served as a counterbalance to - a check upon - dogmatism and fanaticism. Just think, if only more Nazis had only doubted a little bit what they believed, then maybe some Jews would have been spared. This notion led Bronowski to proclaim at Auschwitz: "I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, know that you may be mistaken." When doubt is supressed or banished, that is when atrocities, such as the Holocaust and the pogroms, occur. Doubt is absolutely nescessary for tolerance and peaceful civilization to flourish, or even to exist. There absolutely must be doubt in both the political and religious spheres in order for a society or a civilization to enjoy calm. That is why religious fundamentalism is so dangerous in American society, or any other society. This is becasue both the religious realm and the political realm are areas of society where relative values should reign. By relative values, I mean a realization that various people have differing viewpoints. In my opinion, it is obvious in American society how religious fundamentalism has become a source of confusion in politics, precisely because religious fundamentalism and fanaticism both introduce their warped and intolerant absolutes into the realm of relative values. Religious fundamentalists everywhere are the enemies of democracy and civilization. A rational civilization can only be based on doubt - a hesitation in one's convictions that allows for tolerance and prevents a person from imposing his/her beliefs on others by means of violence.

    It would seem to me also that doubt in one's convictions (oxymoron?) would also lead naturally to tolerance of other viewpoints and respect for them. Just going by my background in religion, imo, religions based strictly on the Bible are very intolerant and exclusive of others (the saved and the wicked, etc.). Thanks for your quotation--I'm going to remember that and share it. Pat

  • NewSense
    NewSense

    Patio 34 - Of course, I don't mind at all. Boy oh boy! I'm flabbergasted! This is the first time anyone has expressed any appreciation for one of my posts. I can't believe it!!! This can't be true! I have to pinch myself to make sure that I'm not dreaming all of this!! Be still, my heart!!!

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