The big D can you help??

by brutusmaximus 17 Replies latest jw experiences

  • kes152
    kes152

    Hello brutus,

    I hope you are doing well, please give my greetings and love to your friend who was disfellowshipped. I know from your post that your friend is hurt by what occured with him in the organization. The only one who helped me through it was the Christ. He comforted me and taught me many things, even the wicked practice of disfellowshipping. If you will permit me, I will share with you what he has shared with me.

    Paul along with many of the other disciples were learning. They had many errors and they were corrected on many things. This was one of the reasons they NEEDED the Christ because he was the One who was appointed to teach them "all things" (John 14:26).

    In 1 Corinthians 5 Paul made some pretty outrageous statements. He spoke of judging them (1 Corinthians 5:3), gave them instructions to judge their brothers (1 Corinthians 5:12), and spoke of not even eating with such a sinner (1 Corinthians 5:11). None of these things are what the Christ taught. Does this make Paul wicked? No, it does not. Was Paul in error? Yes, he was. And he even wrote a third letter to retract that statement.

    Paul stated that he judged them and he gave them instructions to "judge those inside." Was this what the Christ taught? No, it was not. Paul was speaking from his own insight and using his own knowledge that he received from the Pharisees. The Christ, however, taught saying "Stop judging that you may not be judged; and stop condemning and you will by no means be condemned. For with what judgment that you are judging, you will also be judged; and the measure that you are measuring out will be measured back to you" (Matthew 7:1, 2; Luke 6:37). Our Lord said to us, "Keep on RELEASING and you will be RELEASED." All of us have sinned and have many errors in us. Therefore, who are WE that we should judge our brother? If we forgive the trespasses of those who trespassed against us, we will be forgiven of OUR trespasses (Matthew 6:14, 15). This is why those who 'belong to the body of the Christ' are under obligation NOT to judge their brothers (whether wicked or righteous) that we may not be judged.

    Did Paul later 'hear' this and correct his words? Yes, he did. If you read his third letter to the Corinthians (mistakenly called the second letter) Paul writes saying, "For this is what I have DECIDED for myself.. not to come to again in sadness. For if I make you sad, who indeed is there to cheer me except the one made sad by me?" (2 Corinthians 2:1, 2) So here Paul has been grieving over what occured. He now addresses his previous letter saying, "Now if anyone has caused sadness, he has saddened, not me, but all of you to an extent- not to be too harsh in WHAT I SAY." So here, rather than Paul taking blame for his harsh words, he says that one(s) were "too harsh" with his words. Then he retracts all his words saying, "This rebuke given by the MAJORITY is sufficient for such a man, so that ON THE CONTRARY now, you should kindly forgive and comfort him, that somehow such a man may NOT be swallowed up by his being overly sad" (2 Corinthians 2:6, 7). Notice the rebuke of "disfellowshipping" was only given by the majority? This is because there was a MINORITY that did NOT excercise Paul's words Paul now tells those who DID obey him to not do what he told them to do, but on the CONTRARY, kindly forgive and comfort him. Why does Paul say this? Paul later LEARNED that when you 'disfellowship' your brother, he becomes "overly sad." Such sadness can LEAD to one(s) being "overreached by Satan" (2 Corinthians 2:11). Consequently Paul retracts his words due to his error and his love for his brothers (2 Corinthians 2:4). Did he continue this teaching of telling other to "stop "judging?" Yes, he did. About a year later he wrote to the Romans saying, "Who are you to be judging the house servant of another? To HIS OWN MASTER he stands or falls" (Romans 14:4). Also he says, "But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you also look down on your brother? ... Therefore let us NOT be judging one another any longer,.." (Romans 14:10-13). Yes, Paul received that we should not judge one another and not only did he retract his statement, but he continued the correction in his other letters.

    It is very sad and unfortunate that many religions do not 'see' this and reject the unloving practice of expelling. The Christ did not teach us to expel our brothers. The Christ taught us by "example" and his example was LOVE, even for those who ARE sinning. He ate with a man who was called a 'brother' who was a greedy person, an extortioner, and a slanderer (John 12:1-3; John 6:70). He ate with tax collectors and sinners and many people, including the Pharisees, murmured AGAINST him for doing it (Luke 15:1, 2; Luke 19:7; Luke 7:39). He knew they were sinners, and he knew what they had done. Yet, he LOVED them. And it was by his LOVE that he SURPASSED the Law and FORGAVE them. This is the 'lesson' that we who follow him were to learn. We are not to judge and condemn one another for the things they do. We are to LOVE them and forgive them, because the Christ loved them and forgave them and WE are NOT greater than him (John 13:16). If he is our Lord and Teacher, and HE could forgive them and love them, we should also. For he SET THE PATTEN that just as HE did, so we should do also (John 13:14, 15).

    Sadly though, many today do not know this and many today do not wish to embrace it. Theydo not listen because they do not wish to listen. The flesh loves domination and one of the means by which man is ABLE to falsely "justify" himself into dominating his fellowman even to his own injury is by judging, condemning, and disfellowshipping his brother. They have been fooled because they 'want' to be fooled, but those who wish not to be fooled will not be fooled, depite the many words a man may use to try to convince him.

    Hope this helps, much love and peace to you and your friend.

  • brutusmaximus
    brutusmaximus

    Kes,

    Many thanks for the time and effort you have put into that post it has sorted a few things out in my head, many thanks

    B

  • bull01lay
    bull01lay

    Hi brutusmaximus,

    I feel for your friend - I was in the same situation 12 years ago - brought up a witness with only 2 outside friends, then DF'd and on my own. From my experience, my advice to your friend would be to not waste time trying to regain false friendships. Get out there, make new friends with people who accept him for who he is, not what cult he belongs to.

    As regards his family, they are still able to associate with him, but it will depend upon how 'level headed' they are... my friends folks are zealots and would have nothing to do with him, so as not to 'stumble' any other witnesses. What a crock of (bull)sh*t

    E-man:

    I do know of a JW who masturbated only once yet he has been a wanker for all his life..

    I didn't realise we'd met before !!!!! LOL!

    Bull!

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Aaron:

    It is very sad and unfortunate that many religions do not 'see' this and reject the unloving practice of expelling. The Christ did not teach us to expel our brothers.

    In fairness, there are very few religions that do this

    How have ya bin, bro - IM me will ya?

    BM:Missed ya before. Welcome to the board, from a fellow Scot...

  • Bubbamar
    Bubbamar

    KES - Thank you so much for that post. I've been trying to figure all that out and you just laid it out beautifully.

    Yipee for KES

  • kes152
    kes152

    brutus, bubbamar, and others,

    Thank you for your kindness and love. I am glad it was helpful. The true praise and the thanks go to My Father and his Son. It was they who told me and showed me these things. Much love to you all.

    LittleToe:

    Hello there, its been a long time :) I have missed you, how are you? I am doing well, when I get the opportunity I will definitely IM you. Looking forward to speaking with you.

    Peace to you all,

    Aaron

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    Anyone who is disfellowshipped is playing the role. The obvious choice is don't play the role. Tell em to suck green tomatoes. Take a walk. Get lost . . .etc:-) Anyone who shuns me can never talk to me again as long as I live by MY rules, not theirs. I choose to get a new group of healthy friends. Screw them. They can keep it all. GaryB





  • Anticult
    Anticult

    Whew...where to start......First of all the head Elder of the Kingdom Hall I attended in Pennsylvania as a child, was a HUGE Alcoholic and nothing was ever said or done about his actions. When I would visit at his home ( his daughter was my friend) He used to grab his wife by the hair and call her "woman" and demand her to "listen to him" . Imagine that..... a innocent 6 year old child watching the head elder of her congregation throw his wife down the stairs. Beat his children. I remember spending most of the time hiding in his daughters closet sweating perfusely being so scared. I was there to play with his kids...but instead it was always the same, him drinking, yelling and mistreating his family. I remember a member of the hall being dissfellowshipped for smoking a ciggarette..but our head elder could be an alcoholic and be the same man who lectures the congregation 4 nights a week? I had no choice at that age. My religion was chosen for me. But now I control me...I do .....with the help of god ....not a group of abusers and alcoholics who want me to follow them.

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