Can a JW be a professional boxer? Yes.

Leolaia

BOBBY VANZIE

Alias: Viper. Category: Lightweight. World Rank: 95. Age: 30. Height: 5' 7".

What does Mr. Vanzie say about his religion?

What do you hope to do after Boxing, are you interested in being a trainer or perhaps work in the media?

Dave my friend, I couldn't train any man to go through what I have had to endure in my career. I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror. This is the hardest business out there and fighters do not receive a quarter of what they deserve monetarily speaking; most fighters don't earn in their lifetime what footballers earn in a week, you do the math!
I have just got a job working once a month on a very popular radio station, where I will be answering sporting questions and also covering high profile fights in the country, and in time, other countries. I love writing poetry, songs and stories, and hope to get them published at some stage, I am also a Jehovah?s Witness, don't be afraid...be very afraid (laughs), which takes up a lot of my time also, so my time will be spent doing the radio work, which hopefully will lead into TV. I also do some modelling along with the rest of my family, and, as I said, the writing and the ministry are also an important part of my life. My career in such a violent sport never married with my Christian beliefs but I have a family to support and know that I will not be judged harshly for this reason, though the day I do call it quits will be a joyous one.
http://www.ibopboxing.com/a_articles/article__june_26_2004__payne.asp

According to the elder manual Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock, boxing is a disfellowshipping offense: "Wrongdoing is increasing in frequency and in depravity; such can infiltrate and affect the Christian congregation. (2 Tim. 3:1-5, 13; Jude 3, 4, 11-13) The Scriptures clearly show that Jehovah forbids certain conduct among his clean people; brothers need to uphold Jehovah's righteous standards regarding the following: Manslaughter. A degree of guilt could result from careless driving, careless maintenance of one's automobile, or other careless or thoughtless action that causes injury or death. (Compare Deuteronomy 22:8). Being a professional boxer may be viewed in a similar way. (w81 7/1, pp. 30-31)." Reference: http://www.hedning.no/hedning/arkiv/jv/unit5a.htm

Even more to the point, the same book on p. 142 says in a discussion on martial arts: "As in the case of a person who takes up professional boxing and continues in such a course, he would be expelled from the congregation."

But Mr. Vanzie knows that he "will not be judged harshly" for boxing?

XQsThaiPoes

Being a professional boxer may be viewed in a similar way

More examples on how inert harmless and parochial this religion is becoming.

frankiespeakin

I think the wording may leave a loophole:

Being a professional boxer "may" be viewed in a simalar way

It says "may" it is not hard and fast, so I guess it all depends on if it will bring bad publicity or not by DF'n him:

Leolaia

Not so fast....the same book says on p. 142:

A brother would be disqualified as an elder, a ministerial
servant, or a pioneer if he took up the study of such
martial arts and practiced them.
A person publicly advocating such could be dealt with in
line with 2 Thessalonians 3:13-15.
As in the case of a person who takes up professional
boxing and continues in such a course, he would be
expelled from the congregation. (w81 7/1 PP. 30-1)

Anyone has a quote from the July 1st, 1981 issue of the Watchtower on boxing?

Sweetp0985

Why are you guys tripping? He's probably in the same congregation with Prince, and the Williams' sisters. As long as he's "giving" to the WWW he's gonna be ok.

frankiespeakin

Leo,

I think you are right,,they should DF him according to your most recent quote. But did you know that the WT society sends secret directives that are very confidential to only certain bodies of elders to handle a case differnetly than outlined in the Elder book. Sometimes the CO has secret letters already for certain situations if needed at least I have experienced that once no twice. Once to DF a brother for apostacy and another time when the issue of whether or not to df certian unbaptized ones when it was consider the thing to do, they had a letter warning us not to follow a certain option that was expressed in a watchtower and KM.

Earnest

*** w81 7/1 30-1 Questions from Readers *** Can a dedicated and baptized Christian take up professional boxing and still remain in good standing with his congregation?
If a Christian were to become a professional boxer, this would put him in conflict with God?s counsel. Let us consider some of that Biblical advice.
The Scriptures clearly show that dedicated Christians are to produce the fruitage of God?s holy spirit, which is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness and self-control. (Gal. 5:22, 23) Professional boxing flies in the face of all such fruitage. The Bible counsels us to be "peaceable with all men" and not to fight but to be "gentle toward all." (Rom. 12:18; 2 Tim. 2:24) Similarly, at James 3:18 we read that "the fruit of righteousness has its seed sown under peaceful conditions for those who are making peace." Moreover, we are told to ?love our neighbors as ourselves? and that love works no "evil," and therefore no harm or hurt, to one?s neighbor.?Rom. 13:9, 10.
Professional boxing cannot be considered simply an innocent sport. It is a well-known fact that boxers go into the ring with a strong urge to hurt their opponents. For the time being, they may even have a murderous feeling toward them. This spirit may be sensed by observers, as can often be seen from the way spectators react at a boxing match. Time and again they are heard shouting, "Kill him! Kill him!"
So it is no wonder that from time to time the press reports that a boxer has been mortally injured in the boxing ring. In boxing there is always the risk that one of the fighters might become a manslayer, and, as the apostle John states, "you know that no manslayer has everlasting life." (1 John 3:15) Bearing on this is the opinion of one veteran boxing official that boxing is "legalized murder" and should be prohibited by law. It has also been described as "assault with malicious intent." And still ano
ther sordid aspect of professional boxing is the kind of people involved in running the sport. Often it is in the control of the underworld criminal element.
In view of these facts, what should be the attitude of the congregation elders toward a dedicated and baptized Christian who takes up professional boxing? First, they would want to counsel such a brother in keeping with the Scriptural principles enunciated above. (Gal. 6:1) They should kindly, yet firmly, present the reasons why such boxing is not compatible with being a dedicated follower of Jesus Christ, the "Prince of Peace." (Isa. 9:6) They could show him that a Christian is to "do hard work, doing with his hands what is good work." Earning money as a professional boxer by battering a opponent in a boxing ring can hardly be termed "good work."?Eph. 4:28.
The individual should also be reminded that while professional boxing might provide him with a comfortable livelihood, Christians do not need to stoop to such means, for God?s Word assures us, at Hebrews 13:5, 6: "Let your manner of life be free of the love of money, while you are content with the present things. For he has said: ?I will by no means leave you nor by any means forsake you.? So that we may be of good courage and say: ?Jehovah is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me??"
Therefore, such a person should be given a reasonable period of time to discontinue his unchristian profession or occupation. His failure to do so would mean that the elders would have no alternative but to exclude him from the congregation.?1 Cor. 5:11-13.

truthseeker1

He'll be df'd if he is baptized. If he isn't then there isn't anything they can do.

"They will learn war no more" comes to mind.

frankiespeakin

Earnest,

Thanks for the clip.

There is still aloop hole:

Therefore, such a person should be given a reasonable period of time to discontinue his unchristian profession or occupation.

That could be 5 years who is to say what a reasonable period of time is???

Leolaia

Yes, there is a loophole. That makes my point (re the question "Can a JW be a professional boxer?")

The thing is tho....Mr. Vanzie shows an awareness of the incompatibility between his profession and the JW religion ("my career ... never married with my Christian beliefs"), and yet persists in his profession and rationalizes the contradiction by noting that he has a family to feed. If a JC were so inclined to press the issue, he would appear to be unrepentant. But of course, no JC is pressing him. In fact, Mr. Vanzie declares that he knows that he "would not be judged harshly". Doesn't sound like he thinks he could face reproof or disfellowshipping for what he's doing. I wonder if he has actually been given tacit permission by his elders or DO/CO.

Can a JW be a professional boxer? Yes.

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