Biblical, Christian "Morals" (page 3)

Norm

Hello Scorpi,

Just what I thought, you couldn't even mention ONE Christian "value".

Norm.

Scorpion

Norm,

What is a Christian value?

I do not equate values with Christianity or any other religion for that matter.

larc

Scorpion,

You are the one who used the term "Christian values". It seems to me, that if behooves you to define what you mean.

Scorpion

MY GOD! And I thought getting through to those still in the borg was tough.

larc,

Norm was the first to bring up Christian Values in his original post.

"In the United States there are movements who are working very hard to bring America back to those Christian values"

I ask you larc, what is a Christian value? Can you help Norm with this? Maybe you both need help!

Well, I am happy to see that we are in perfect agreement about those elusive "Christian values". I don't know what they are and you don't know what they are, but Christians talk about them all the time and that we should all "return" to those values.

That was my main point in the post that started this thread, I thought that was pretty obvious. I'm sure you have heard lots of Christian preachers and politicians talk about it. If not I am sure you are going to notice the next time.

Norm.

logical

Norm,

I still want to know why you used examples of peoples behaviour BEFORE the law, in your arguement.

patio34

This seems to be the quintessence of nit-picking. Norm, your post was perfectly clear to me. But the debates over semantics is exhausting.

The whole Bible is fraught with immoral behavior before, during, and after the law. Albeit the Christian times had less decreed.

There are way too many specifics of genocide, abuse of women, children, and slaves, and unjust behaviour (bring your son to the gates and have him stoned) to bother with, in my opinion.

It seems some are more interested in missing the point and having a good argument.

If 'Christian values' are necessary to a moral society, how have we been existing before? I think the idea is correct now: leave religion out of government!

I know, for one, I have less trouble with values and morals now after leaving. The reason is that it is what I choose to be for my own reasons. Not because someone else decrees it and I have to consult a talmud-like group for my decisions.

Good posts, Norm and Larc.

Pat

Norm

Ello Logi,

You said:

Norm,
I still want to know why you used examples of peoples behaviour BEFORE the law, in your arguement.

Sigh. What an ignorant person you are Logi. Do you think these murderers behavior changed after they got the LAW? If you do, take a look at this:

*** Rbi8 Numbers 31:7-9 ***
And they went waging war against Mid'i•an, just as Jehovah had commanded Moses, and they proceeded to kill every male. 8 And they killed the kings of Mid'i•an along with the others slain, namely, E'vi and Re'kem and Zur and Hur and Re'ba, the five kings of Mid'i•an; and they killed Ba'laam the son of Be'or with the sword. 9 But the sons of Israel carried off the women of Mid'i•an and their little ones captive;

*** Rbi8 Numbers 31:14-18 ***
And Moses grew indignant at the appointed men of the combat forces, the chiefs of the thousands and the chiefs of the hundreds who were coming in from the military expedition. 15 So Moses said to them: “Have YOU preserved alive every female? 16 Look! They are the ones who, by Ba'laam’s word, served to induce the sons of Israel to commit unfaithfulness toward Jehovah over the affair of Pe'or, so that the scourge came upon the assembly of Jehovah. 17 And now kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has had intercourse with man by lying with a male. 18 And preserve alive for yourselves all the little ones among the women who have not known the act of lying with a male.

*** Rbi8 Numbers 31:31-41 ***
31 And Moses and El•e•a'zar the priest went doing just as Jehovah had commanded Moses. 32 And the booty, the rest of the plunder that the people of the expedition had taken as plunder, amounted to six hundred and seventy-five thousand of the flock, 33 and seventy-two thousand of the herd, 34 and sixty-one thousand asses. 35 As for human souls from the women who had not known the act of lying with a male, all the souls were thirty-two thousand. 36 And the half that was the share of those who went out on the expedition amounted in number to three hundred and thirty-seven thousand five hundred of the flock. 37 And the tax for Jehovah from the flock amounted to six hundred and seventy-five. 38 And of the herd there were thirty-six thousand, and the tax on them for Jehovah was seventy-two. 39 And the asses were thirty thousand five hundred, and the tax on them for Jehovah was sixty-one. 40 And the human souls were sixteen thousand, and the tax on them for Jehovah was thirty-two souls. 41 Then Moses gave the tax as Jehovah’s contribution to El•e•a'zar the priest, just as Jehovah had commanded Moses.

*** Rbi8 Judges 21:10-12 ***
10 Hence the assembly proceeded to send twelve thousand of the most valiant men there and to command them, saying: “Go, and YOU must strike the inhabitants of Ja'besh-gil'e•ad with the edge of the sword, even the women and the little ones. 11 And this is the thing that YOU should do: Every male and every woman that has experienced lying with a male YOU should devote to destruction.” 12 However, they found out of the inhabitants of Ja'besh-gil'e•ad four hundred girls, virgins, that had not had intercourse with a man by lying with a male. So they brought them to the camp at Shi'loh, which is in the land of Ca'naan.

*** Rbi8 Judges 16:1-5 ***
16 Once Samson went to Ga'za and saw a prostitute woman there and came in to her. 2 And report was made to the Ga'zites, saying: “Samson has come in here.” So they surrounded him and lay in wait for him all night long in the city gate. And they kept quiet the whole night, saying: “As soon as the morning gets light, we must also kill him.”
3 However, Samson kept lying till midnight and then rose at midnight and grabbed hold of the doors of the city gate and the two side posts and pulled them out along with the bar and put them upon his shoulders and went carrying them up to the top of the mountain that is in front of He'bron.
4 And it came about after that that he fell in love with a woman in the torrent valley of So'rek, and her name was De•li'lah. 5

*** Rbi8 Judges 13:24-25 ***
24 Later the woman gave birth to a son and called his name Samson; and the boy kept getting bigger, and Jehovah continued to bless him. 25 In time Jehovah’s spirit started to impel him in Ma'ha•neh-dan between Zo'rah and Esh'ta•ol.

*** Rbi8 Judges 18:7 ***
7 Accordingly the five men went on and came to La'ish and saw how the people that were within it were dwelling in self-reliance according to the custom of the Si•do'ni•ans, quiet and unsuspecting, and there was no oppressive conqueror that was molesting a thing in the land, while they were far off from the Si•do'ni•ans and they had nothing to do with mankind.

*** Rbi8 Judges 18:27-28 ***
27 As for them, they took what Mi'cah had made and the priest that had become his, and they kept going toward La'ish, against a people quiet and unsuspecting. And they proceeded to strike them with the edge of the sword, and the city they burned with fire. 28 And there was no deliverer, for it was far away from Si'don, and they had nothing at all to do with mankind; and it was in the low plain that belonged to Beth-re'hob. Then they built the city and took up dwelling in it.

*** Rbi8 Judges 19:22-30 ***
22 While they were making their hearts feel good, look! the men of the city, mere good-for-nothing men, surrounded the house, shoving one another against the door; and they kept saying to the old man, the owner of the house: “Bring out the man that came into your house, that we may have intercourse with him.” 23 At that the owner of the house went on out to them and said to them: “No, my brothers, do not do anything wrong, please, since this man has come into my house. Do not commit this disgraceful folly. 24 Here are my virgin daughter and his concubine. Let me bring them out, please, and YOU rape them and do to them what is good in YOUR eyes. But to this man YOU must not do this disgraceful, foolish thing.”
25 And the men did not want to listen to him. Hence the man took hold of his concubine and brought her forth to them outside; and they began to have intercourse with her, and kept on abusing her all night long until the morning, after which they sent her off at the ascending of the dawn. 26 Then the woman came as it was turning to morning, and fell down at the entrance of the man’s house where her master was,—until daylight. 27 Later her master rose up in the morning and opened the doors of the house and went out to get on his way, and, look! the woman, his concubine, fallen at the entrance of the house with her hands upon the threshold! 28 So he said to her: “Rise up, and let us go.” But there was no one answering. At that the man took her upon the ass and rose up and went to his place.
29 Then he entered his house and took the slaughtering knife and laid hold of his concubine and cut her up according to her bones into twelve pieces and sent her into every territory of Israel. 30 And it occurred that everybody seeing it said: “Such a thing as this has never been brought about or been seen from the day that the sons of Israel went up out of the land of Egypt down to this day. Set YOUR hearts upon it, take counsel and speak.”

You have kept harping on this "before the law" argument, now what happened after "the law". Please explain.

Norm.

Biblical, Christian "Morals"

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