What is faith? (page 2)

Satanus

Ona

Yes, that is what i was trying to say, or i thought i said something like that.

S

Robdar

"Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld."
What gooble-de-gook.
So, just because one has an "assured expectation of things hoped for," that constitutes faith? Hitler and Stalin and Mussolini had mutually 'assured expectations [by treaty, army, and mutual evaluations of the world-scene];' did that make them faithful?

IMO, yes, it did make them faithful but they were faithful to a false belief. They had a false belief, a false faith and they failed because of it (along with a little help from the rest of the world who knew it was a false faith).

I am not sure that I follow the rest of your argument and so will ignore it and cruise on to the next part:

In other words, Hebrews 11:1 is saying nothing more, and nothing less, than: "If you believe it, you can call it faith."
And then, of course: "You are saved by your faith."

If faith is belief, then it is what saves us. What else do we have to save us besides our beliefs?

I'm not necessarily speaking of faith in the Bible or faith in God. I am speaking of belief and faith in ourselves. Trusting that we know what is right for us and will manifest it into our lives. Loving ourselves enough to do so.

IMO, people often forget to interpret the Bible allegoricaly.

dh

Faith is when though you have questions, you have enough trust not to need all of the answers.

Satanus

dh

See my fisrt post and ona's enlargement on it: faith is when you don't like the answers that are before you, so you make up new ones, ones you like better, and faith allows you to keep belief in them. As well, to making them up yourself, they could come from tradition, religion, politics; having been manufactured by some one else, even many centuries ago.

S

onacruse

Satanus:

Yes, that is what i was trying to say, or i thought i said something like that.

LOL.

Yes, I do have a predeliction for rephrasing another poster's remarks.

Thought speaks to thought.

dh

i read the posts, i have no faith, but what i said is my opinion and is my view on what faith...

Faith is when though you have questions, you have enough trust not to need all of the answers.

example: if you tell your child to do something, because he trusts you he will do it because he has... faith. even though he cannot grasp the reasons, he wouldn't and doesn't need to ask. faith is when you don't really know HOW traffic lights work, but you trust them enough to stop when they say stop and go when they say go. in my eyes faith isn't always about religion, it's about two things, information & trust, i think people who put faith in things have enough trust in the thing they are putting faith in, not to need all the answers. whether that is blind faith or stupid faith on naive faith or not, they have enough trust not to need to know more. i have no religious faith whatsoever, but i usually stop at red lights.

Double Edge

My thoughts:

Belief is passive whereas Faith is active. Lots of sailors and mapmakers of the late 1400's believed the world was round and that you could sail westward to arrive at Asia. However, their belief was passive. On the other hand, Columbus just "knew" it to be so that he spent years actively pursuing his belief. He raised the money, put together the ships and men and set sail... he went beyond mere belief to Faith.

James chapter 8 makes a good point regarding being 'active" (works) rather than "passive":

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Mac

Faith is the assured expectation of things groped for and the subsequent remonstration of real A & T's that can't be held.

mac, not sure if this is biblical but, it's not uncommon in a bar class

shamus

Yes, double edge. Good point! There are differences in 'faith'... however...

Problem is, the bible is completely flawed to begin with, so why should I believe the goblegook collaboration of scriptures? Why should I believe in a book that tells people to stone to death people in one book, then love everyone in another?

BluesBrother

how can you put trust in something that you don't know exists??

Human beings are doing that all the time. I used to have faith in the New World, now I know it was all fantasy, but at the time I believed it was based on credible evidence and sound reasoning... Scientists and philosophers have faith in their teachings , long before they may be accepted. As Demosthenes said:-

The easiest thing of all is to DECEIVE one's self; for what a man wishes, he generally believes to be TRUE."

What is faith?

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