The history of Islam

by Elsewhere 111 Replies latest jw friends

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Thi Chi, the IRA was backed and supported by NORAID operating on American soil - directly analgous to the PLO operating from Tunisian soil. One you ignore, the other you condemn. Anoher display of bias and partiality on your part.

    The poor American guy who was execeted was executed by Wahhabi extremeists. You know, in that some COUNTRY of Wahhabi extremists (who have a religiously backed hatered of non-Muslims) that has been a major ally of the West for decades...?

    Just as I've been pointing out, it's certain TYPES of Muslim that are bad. It might suit your religious bigotry to make out Muslims are all the same, but it's nothing you can prove, it's just out-and-out bigoty.

    As for your other facts...

    1. Muslim Turkey has expelled approximately 1,500,000 Greeks from its empire in the east and replaced them with Turks. They have massacred approximately 2 million Armenians and replaced them with Turks in the west.

    As I've clearly been talking about modern Turkey, you brining up a massacre by Ottoman Turkey in 1915. Let's keep to examples in the past 20 or so years, shall we, or I can use supposedly Christian Germany's participation in the Holocaust to characterise modern Germany?

    2. Muslim Turkey has invaded and occupied northern Cyprus, displacing the Greeks living there.

    WAS THIS A RELIGIOUS WAR? No. There's dozens of similar territorially driven wars by Christian countries in the past few decades I could point to.

    3. Muslim northern Sudan has conquered much of southern Sudan, literally enslaving its Christian and pagan population.

    Where did I say the Sudan was a good example of a modern Islamic state? I suppose the Sudan is a bit like Serrbia in it's conduct; and Serbia is Christian.

    4. Indonesian imperialism has occupied all of non-Islamic western New Guinea and incorporated into Indonesia.

    Actually the divison between Eatern and Western Papua New Guniea is due to EUROPEAN colonialism. The Dutch formally took possession of the western half of the island (now the province of West Papua [Irian Jaya], Indonesia) in 1828. They also had possesion of Indonesia. Western Papua and Indonesia have been under one government for over 150 years. You are either showing your ignorance or lying when you say that this was due to Indonesian Imperialism, but as normal, your facts being wrong won't change your opinion. Here's some references to show how wrong you are;

    In 1963, Netherlands New Guinea (the Dutch portion of the island of New Guinea) was transferred to Indonesia and renamed West Irian, which became Irian Jaya in 1973 and West Papua in 2000.

    http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107634.html

    5. Muslim Indonesia has invaded and conquered Christian East Timor with horrible loss of life.

    WAS THIS A RELIGIOUS WAR? No. If you actually want to know about East Timor (hint, the USA don't look good if you bother learning the facts, but if you're willing to open a discussion about the USA's track record of backing dictatorships that violate human rights, you go right ahead Thi Chi, it will just add to your failure to show a difference between the morals of Christian and Muslim countries...) go here; http://www.zmag.org/CrisesCurEvts/Timor/timor_index.htm#Must%20Read%20Essays

    6. This very day, Muslim Indonesia is attempting to destroy Christianity in what used to be called the Celebes.

    As freedom of religion is a consitutional guarantee in Indonesia, please provide some links to back up this assertiton.

    7. A half-dozen Arab countries have fought two to four wars (depending how you count) in an attempt to destroy Israel and occupy its territory, and is curren tly continuing the attempt this very day with the publicly voted consent of 55 of the world's 57 Islamic nations.

    Ah, so... because the USA and the European powers decided that Israel should have a modern state, that is morally right? Okay, divine mandate all over again... you believe in it as well, don't you?

    8. For no good reason, Muslim Libya has blown up western aircraft, killing many civilians.

    A great example of pan-arabism. Not a great example of a modern Islamic country; another dictatorship.

    9. Muslim Iraq, in an imperialist war of aggression, invaded and occupied Muslim Kuwait.

    A great example of pan-arabism. Not a great example of a modern Islamic country; another dictatorship, backed by the USA as long as it stayed useful despite it's record of human-rights violations.

    10. Muslim Iraq, in an imperialist act of aggression, invaded Muslim Iran with a resulting (some estimates say) death of 2 million people.

    I think your failure to identify Iraq as a secularly run Pan-0arabist states is due to your lack of intelectual dishonesty, rather than you being unawar of the facts. It certainly can't be considered an Islamic state - Al-Q and Iran seem quite clear on this last fact.

    11. Muslim Albania, this very minute, is attempting to enlarge its borders at Christian Macedonia's expense.

    Oh you are soooooooooooooooooo amaszingly biased! Anyone who wants to see exactly how bigoted you are should read the items here;

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/europe/2001/macedonia_crisis/default.stm

    ... yeah, so unreasonable that Albanian Macedonians should want equal recognition under the consitituion as ethnic Macedonians, I mean, there only 1/4 of the population. So Thi Ch, are you BACKING the racist Macedonian consitution?

    12. Muslim Northern Nigeria has been (and is currently) an aggressor against the Christian south.

    Again, I've not said that Nigeria is a good example in any way of anything (other than large-scale endemic corruption). The intent of Islamists there is that of traditonalists, not of modernists, and anyone can figure out it is the tradtionalists (like the Wahhabi) that are the danger. I've not argued otherwise, alsthough I think traditonalists Christians have their own dangers too...

    13. Muslims expelled approximately 800,000 Jews from their homelands between 1947 and 1955.

    And German Christians expelled approximately 6,000,000 Jews from their homelands between 1936 and 1944, and then killed them. I really don't see the big moral difference between Christians and Muslims Thi Chi...

    14. During Jordan's occupation of the West Bank, the kingdom undertook an unsuccessful attempt to make Jerusalem a Muslim city by forcing out approximately 10,000 Christian inhabitants.

    Yeah, as unreasonable as the 93 million Christians in America who support the establishment of an Israeli homeland, even if this entails supporting the Israeli governments violations of human rights.

    All you do Thi Chi is show your bias, and show how old colonialism and modern meddling by America and European powers are at the base of many problems in the world today.

    And the worst thing is that unreasoned and wild talk like yours, where 'Islam' becomes the enemy, lines you up with the Wahhabis who hold Chritianity to be the enemy.

    Rather than making it a 'good guy vesus bad guy' thing, where peaceful Muslims and Christians and whatevers can unite in their disgust of violence, you turn it into a war of religious polarisation despite the violent element that exists being a minority of Muslims as a whole.

    You play into the hands of the most violent and dangerous of the Muslims by PROVING their propoganda.

    Well, you and they deserve each other.

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    Let History speak. Let the readers decide.

    "The moral equivalence the left attaches to these heathens has always amazed me. They look out in the world and they see the most despicable acts of terror and they blame America for it one way or the other. They exonerate the people who commit these acts because of some socioeconomic reason, or they were provoked by us. They always find room to blame us for what happens, more so than the people who committed the atrocities. "

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