Interesting point; if they were gods mouthpiece then surely they should have known; just goes to show that it is grossly blasphemous to suggest that any man (without proof) is gods messenger.
The Hitler Files. The WT had relations with UN. Also with Hitler.
by avengers 22 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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avengers
On which side was the WT Org? Right off the bat you'd say or think: "There's no way the org could be on Hitler's side".
Lets check the source on which the org relies solely . Ofcourse, the Bible.
2 Chronicles 16.
At that time Hanani the seer came to Asa king of Judah and said to him: "Because you relied on the king of Aram and not on the LORD your God, the army of the king of Aram has escaped from your hand. 8 Were not the Cushites [ b ] and Libyans a mighty army with great numbers of chariots and horsemen [ c ] ? Yet when you relied on the LORD , he delivered them into your hand. 9 For the eyes of the LORD range throughout the earth to strengthen those whose hearts are fully committed to him. You have done a foolish thing, and from now on you will be at war."
Asa tried to make a pact with Ben-Hadad King of Syria:3 " Let there be a treaty between me and you," he said, "as there was between my father and your father.
Jehovah condemned this act.
This is only one example which shows the WT condemns itself by it's own words.
" Let there be a treaty between me and you," Istn't that what the Watchtower said to Hitler? Or am I wrong?
Andy
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Zebedeo
It was very wrong for the Watchtower to send such a letter. It was racist and took a political stand on an issue in which they should have stayed natural. However, the Watchtower does acknowledge that the preaching work was almost stopped completely during WWII. The reason they give is that they were being punished by Jehovah for not being neutral during the war as they should have.
I can find the article if you wish me to quote it. I believe it may be in the book "Revelations its Grand Climax at Hand" and is located in the part that discusses the Scripture dealing with the two witnesses killed in the square. I don't have any Watchtower books or I would have looked it up. I just seem to remember "Studying" it when I was a kid.
In any event the do acknowledge that some of the things they did during WWII were wrong and that they were rebuked by Jehovah and that is why the preaching work stopped during the war and the societies governing body was put in jail.
I have to say also that it can be acknowledged that God's people can make mistakes. The Israelites made many and even Moses was not allowed to enter the Promised Land because he made a mistake. The Catholic Church burned witches along with the Lutherans. Does that mean that those churches have no spiritual value today and are from the devil? I would say not.
I think it is more important to focus on the issues of today (and there are many) in the Society rather then trying to dig up ever error they made in the past. If we want to use scriptures to say that anyone who makes mistakes can't have God's blessing then where does that leave any of us or any church? -
Pistoff
In any event the do acknowledge that some of the things they did during WWII were wrong and that they were rebuked by Jehovah and that is why the preaching work stopped during the war and the societies governing body was put in jail.
Please find me in writing where the society says they did something wrong, in those words; I will gold plate it and eat it.
The WILL make excuses, and blame others, and say they were misunderstood. They will not admit to anything.
They have never said the letter to Hitler was wrong, FGS.
P
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AuldSoul
Zebedeo,
In any event the do acknowledge that some of the things they did during WWII were wrong and that they were rebuked by Jehovah and that is why the preaching work stopped during the war and the societies governing body was put in jail.
I believe you are thinking of World War I (The one with Kaiser Wilhelm involved). Much is made of JW neutrality and the persecution suffered because of it during World War II. They don't acknowledge having done ANYTHING wrong during World War II.
But I fully understand your desire to find some explanation for this outrageous letter.
You want to shift focus to today? I understand that desire. But when you consider that the religionof today is a product of its past and that the teachings of the organization were held as truth by the adherents at that time, it can help us have a more balanced view of staunchly held "truths" today that may very well change considerably by the year 2025.
It may be too late for you to get a degree by then, though. Even though they may have recanted their current stand on education (again) by that year.
AuldSoul
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AuldSoul
Pistoff, he is right except for the timing. The thinking is that the "two witnesses" were figuratively killed (members of WTS imprisoned) as punishment for the lack of firm stand regarding neutrality during World War I. This is one of the VERY RARE specific wrongs they are willing to admit to.
Other than a very short list, they only admit to fallibility in general while demanding exclusive adherence to all "spirit-directed" edicts specifically.
AuldSoul
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Pistoff
Here you go: this is as close as they get to apologizing for slandering the Jews as greedy, to Hitler no less:
This statement clearly did not refer to the Jewish people in general, and it is regrettable if it had been misunderstood and has given cause for any offense.
It is regrettable; sure, they got called on it. Do you see the word WE WERE WRONG, and WE ARE SORRY?
How would a judicial committee view their attitude?
"It is regrettable that you misunderstand my relationship with that hooker as being wrong and that it has offended you".
How would that go over???
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AuldSoul
Pistoff,
He didn't say they apologized for the letter. He said they admitted they were wrong to not remain neutral. He got his wars mized up is all.
They did ACTUALLY admit they were wrong about their lack of neutrality during WWI. They even say Jesus punished them for it by allowing them to be killed for three-and-a-half years (give or take six months)
AuldSoul
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Zebedeo
I am sorry I never wrote back. I have been house hunting and Watchtower hating has not been on the top of my list. Please understand I mean no offense to anyone with anything I write below. It is just my own humble opinion so please don’t get angry.
I agree that you will be hard pressed to really ever find an apology for anything in the Watchtower publications. Normally when they really screw up on something all the publications after which say something like this, "some used to believe the pyramids were built by Jehovah, but the scriptures don't support that". They leave out the fact that the "some", were published works of the Watchtower and Tract Society!
My larger point though was that this is not uncommon behavior for any religious organization. It only took 300 years for the Roman Catholic Church to apologize for burning those witches and some priest prolly still believe they had it coming. All religions change their doctrines and sometimes do the wrong thing. The fact that the Watchtower did only proves unfortunately how normal they are. You can not say it is not biblical either to change your mind. The "first century" Christians changed their beliefs and evolved their doctrines. At first they thought you had to get circumcised then they decided you didn't for just one example.
That is why I said you should focus on what they are today not what they were by trying to find every memo that shows how “scary” they are. You should be focusing on their beliefs and provide scriptures as to why you believe something else. That is providing “light” for people and is legitimate argument on God’s word.
I think God just cares that you have faith. He didn't write in the sky for any of us what he really wants. Everyone needs to find what works for them. If being a Jehovah's Witness makes someone feel closer to God who are we to say they aren't? Who are we to try to break down their faith by posting things from 50 years ago and act like they are the only faith that has changed their stand on something? All faiths do that so does that make them all wrong, or does each faith help each person in its own way?
You may think it is important to point out all these things so people know they can't really be God's people, but can you say who is then? If you say any Christian faith other then Jehovah's Witnesses I promise I will produce a list of problems with that faith too from some hate site as to why they aren't God's people.
You may not like the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses and that is fine, so don't be one and feel free to argue bible scriptures until you are blue in the face. If you goal though is to only destroy their faith how is that doing Gods will? If a Witness talks to me I show them why I changed my mind and tell them how much I like going to my new church but I don’t try to tell them that they are really part of an organization that thinks Hitler had it right. That is like telling a Catholic that their church believes in killing Muslims to retake the holy land. If they decide to become a Methodist after are debate because it provides them more comfort then great! If they don’t like my reasoning on the scriptures and like being a witness that’s great too. At least they have faith.
It is one thing to have a site that says Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in the Trinity and then to provide scriptural reasons why trinity is true. Then you are simply debating scriptures and each person keeps their faith. I find most of the stuff on this site however only designed to bring people down and provides nothing spiritual in its place. You are not building faith in people you only are trying to destroy it. You may think, "no we are freeing people" but what are you freeing them into? Do you have the right religion? If your entire mission as a Christian is only to try to prove to someone that Jesus or God has had nothing to do with any of their beliefs because you have a memo and a book from a hundred years ago ready to shake their faith, then you only deliver people into darkness. -
Honesty
Welcome to the board, Zebedeo
That is why I said you should focus on what they are today not what they were by trying to find every memo that shows how “scary” they are. You should be focusing on their beliefs and provide scriptures as to why you believe something else. That is providing “light” for people and is legitimate argument on God’s word.
I agree, completely.
I suggest a reading of the June 15, 1957 WATCHTOWER. Particularly pay close attention to page 370 paragraph 7 and page 375 paragraph 21
Now read this scripture and compare what the WTBT$ has published and continues to claim regarding their authority as God's channel of communication to mankind:
2 Thess 2:3-4 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For [that day] will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction. He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits in God’s sanctuary, publicizing that he himself is God.
Have a nice day,
Bob Evans
Walland, TN.