Black Veil Lowers again?

by H. 80 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  H.

  I see that you all are not trying to convert or anything which is cool, you are just offering to take a view from all angles not just one which is fine. You though must also understand my position, if I simply turn away because of things that you have said or things I have read on your website or any other for that matter, then I have no respect for myself in my faith. That is why I do stand firm in my beliefs. I understand all religions have their faults, and even if there are crooked people in the organization for the most part the people down here are doing what is needed and required of the Bible. I am not going to worry about them when the end comes and judgment is passed upon them, I am going to worry about doing what I am supposed to be doing. And it is not that I do not feel that I am not strong enough to just read what other posts say here but it is something I would not wish to do. My beliefs are enough for me, I do not need other external sources outside of the Bible. I mean last week a mormon stopped by the door talking to me about sticks and extra book and preaching for two years etc and I knew more about their own religion than they did. That is not the first time. I was a Catholic once and the "father's" favorite phrase was, "God works in mysterious ways," or when asked about Gods name after reading it in the KJV he said, "oh yes that is his name, but we do not think it is important, just have Jesus in your heart." Uhh ok. I am not saying that is what you all are, but honestly have most of you stuck to the same high moral standards that you once followed? Not trying to accuse just a point. One of my friends became apostate and he looks very different, just somone I would not want around my kids ya know? My best friend passed away not too long ago also, did I blame God like many people do? No and I wait until I see him again if it is what Jehovah wants. Even if Jehovah seems unfair to some people I would not care, he created me and I humbly owe my life to him. I do not need sympathy from people that think I am wrong, all I ask is to take me for what I am just like you ask. We can be here for months typing and typing back and forth and eventually what will honestly happen is I will start adopting ideas from here as well. Not because I was not strong enough but because I would probably be spending much more of my time here than elsewhere. Just like with anything else, you spend enough time doing it you begin to live it. May this be the last post, I think I have learned a lot of things about you guys which is cool I think, but I must stick to what I see best for me and not for what others see.

  Kind regards,

  H.
• 

  Fleur

  I'm really sorry about your friend, H.

  I take you as you are. I accept my JW relatives, and love them unconditionally even though I do not share their faith. Unfortunately, they cannot love me that way in return.

  I wish you happiness, and I hope you will hang around.

  Fleur
• 

  avishai

  I do not need other external sources outside of the Bible

  What, like the watchtower, awake, Our kingdom ministry, the "book" study, etc., etc., without which the watchtower bible and tract society says thare can be no understanding?
• 

  Big Tex

  I am not going to worry about them when the end comes and judgment is passed upon them, I am going to worry about doing what I am supposed to be doing

  Good for you. It's an excellent belief, and one that is all too rare amongst Christian religions. I hope you hang around, but if you feel you need to move on, then that's okay too.

  My own feeling is that I have enough problems in my life, and so many mistakes to answer to God for, without taking on others' decisions and beliefs. I have friends. Some are Jehovah's Witnesses, some are pagan, some are gay, some are straight. I care for them without requiring them to align their lives and beliefs with mine. Actually I enjoy being around people who are different, I feel I learn more from them than they do from me.
• 

  TD

  H.

  You sound like a liberal minded JW inasmuch as you have, so far expressed some viewpoints that are directly contradicted by JW literature. (I'll be happy to elaborate as a basis for further discussion.) I don't mean anything negative by this --my wife is a liberal minded JW.

  I wish there were more of you. If the JW organization would allow this kind of plurality of thought there probably would be.
• 

  exjdub

  I am not saying that is what you all are, but honestly have most of you stuck to the same high moral standards that you once followed? Not trying to accuse just a point. One of my friends became apostate and he looks very different, just somone I would not want around my kids ya know?

  H.,

  My life is much as it was in the Org. I have been married to the same wonderful woman since 1981 (we were married in the KH) and I have 2 wonderful kids in their 20's.

  I think the big myth that is spread by the organization about people that leave the organization is that they are somehow different than people in the organization and that they lose their moral compass. But think for a moment. Is your congreagation, or the organization as a whole for that matter, free of moral wrongdoing? You are a reasonable person, think about it. The organization is just a microcosm of the rest of the world. A certain percentage will get pregnant before marriage, a certain percentage will be Gay, a certain (large) percentage will have sex before marriage, a certain number will smoke, a certain percentage will be sexual perverts and pedophiles. This is true for any group of people, even JW's.

  The myth that people in the "Truth" are different is just not true. They may look different due to conformance issues, but that does not make them different on the inside. Now, if you could point to statistics that the "Truth" prevents these thing from happening, then you would have a good point. But the fact is that the organization wrestles with human issues just like anyone else. Just because they discipline people by disfellowshipping does not stop people from making errors in judgement. If that were the case then there would be no need for disfellowshipping. I used to think that the organization had less of a problem with moral issues, but I realized that it just wasn't true...and I realized it long before I ever left. .

  I really do wish you the best H. I think that you are sincere, which is more than I can say for some active JW's that come to this board to rant. I really appreciate that you took the time to express yourself. I wish you the best on your journey through life. Please take some time to smell the roses and keep an open mind, you won't regret it. Regards.

  exjdub
• 

  Flash

  I think I have learned a lot of things about you guys which is cool I think, but I must stick to what I see best for me and not for what others see.

  DITTO, I wish you well.
• 

  RandomTask

  I can accept that.

  And I live pretty much as I did when I was a witness. Plus, I know of many such 'imperfections' in the congregations I attended, things that would be bad in the so called "world". I see people in general not being all that different from the witnesses, merely seperated by beliefs and the system they are subjected to. Witnesses are subjected to a "theocratic" government from Brooklyn as well as the "secular authorities, while those in the world are merely subjected to the secular authorities. You have to realize that much of a witnesses behavior stems from their subjection to their organization, it may not be entirely written on their hearts, for then what is the need for the "theocracy" anyway? Can't men merely approach God on their own? WHy do they need to go through other men to do so?

  But remember you need to draw a distinction between the "rules of man" who use the bible to justify these rules and dominance over others and the true freedom that the bible is actually talking about. And admittedly, I don't believe in the bible as the true word of god, but the even the Witnesses do not hold true to both the letter and the spirit of what the bible says.
• 

  Gerard

  think the Bible is accurate enough for what we need to do so I do not need to go elsewhere for information.

  [...] My beliefs are enough for me, I do not need other external sources outside of the Bible. > > H.

  So why do you stay in a printing corporation that does not allow you to use your independent thinking when you read the Bible?

  The Watchtower has stretched its interpretation in the range from pitiful to hilarious. Feel free to verify these quotes:

  Where in the Bible says you can measure the Great Pyramid of Giza to deduct Armageddon?

  *** Thy Kingdom Come (© 1891) (1904 edition ? Millennial Dawn, vol 3) p.342 ***

  [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

  So, then, if we measure backward down the "First Ascending Passage" to its junction with the "Entrance Passage," we shall have a fixed date to mark upon the downward passage. This measure is 1542 inches, and indicates the year B.C. 1542, as the date at that point. Then measuring down the "Entrance Passage" from that point, to find the distance to the entrance of the "Pit," representing the great trouble and destruction with which this age is to close, when evil will be overthrown from power, we find it to be 3416 inches, symbolizing 3416 years from the above date, B.C. 1542. This calculation shows AD. 1874 as marking the beginning of the period of trouble; for 1542 years B.C. plus 1874 years AD. equals 3416 years. Thus the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1874 was the chronological beginning of the time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation -- no, nor ever shall be afterward. And thus it will be noted that this "Witness" fully corroborates the Bible testimony on this subject...

  ---

  *** Thy Kingdom Come (copyright 1891) (1910 edition -- Studies In The Scriptures, vol. 3) p.342 ***

  [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

  So, then, if we measure backward down the "First Ascending Passage" to its junction with the "Entrance Passage," we shall have a fixed date to mark upon the downward passage. This measure is 1542 inches, and indicates the year B.C. 1542, as the date at that point. Then measuring down the "Entrance Passage" from that point, to find the distance to the entrance of the "Pit," representing the great trouble and destruction with which this age is to close, when evil will be overthrown from power, we find it to be 3457 inches, symbolizing 3457 years from the above date, B.C. 1542. This calculation shows AD. 1915 as marking the beginning of the period of trouble; for 1542 years B.C. plus 1915 years AD. equals 3457 years. Thus the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1914 will be the beginning of the time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation -- no, nor ever shall be afterward. And thus it will be noted that this "Witness" fully corroborates the' Bible testimony on this subject...

  *** The Divine Plan of the Ages [Studies in the Scriptures vol I] 1886 (1908 edition), FOLD OUT CHART ***

  [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

  [ Scan Available! ]

  [Online interactive version available at another website ]

  CHART OF AGES

  Illustrating the Plan of God

  for bringing many sons to glory, and his purpose ?

  [Chart uses physical dimensions of Great Pyramid as basis of "the Plan of God".]

  *** The Golden Age 1923 January 3rd, p.214 ***

  [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

  The public is not generally aware of how large an industry is the manufacture of serums, anti-toxins and vaccines, or that big business controls the whole industry...

  ...the boards of health endeavor to start an epidemic of smallpox, diphtheria, or typhoid that they may reap a golden harvest by inoculating an unthinking community for the very purpose of disposing of this manufactured filth... Vaccination summed up is the most unnatural, unhygienic, barbaric, filthy, abhorrent, and most dangerous system of infection known. Its vile poison taints, corrupts, and pollutes the blood of the healthy, resulting in ulcers, syphilis, scrofula, erysipelas, tuberculosis, cancer, tetanus, insanity, and death.

  *** The Golden Age, Jan 16, 1924 ***

  [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

  It has never been proven that a single disease is due to germs.

  *** The Golden Age, Feb 4 1931 p. 293 The Sacredness of Human Blood (Reasons why vaccination is unscriptural) ***

  [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

  Quite likely there is some connection between the violation of human blood [vaccines] and the spread of demonism...

  *** Consolation, May 31, 1939, p. 3 ***

  [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

  [This is a summary, not a quote]

  Vaccination is

  a "cruel hoax" on mankind by Satan himself.

  *** Watchtower 1952 February 1 pp.95-6 Questions from Readers ***

  For the sake of the record, let us say that we are not medical advisers.

  We leave it up to each individual to choose his own type of treatment.

  *** Kingdom Ministry June 2001 for week starting July 2nd 2001 ***

  [ Scan Available! ]

  Youths?Be Wise in Choosing Your Career. This is the first of three Service Meeting parts that will review Scriptural principles relates to supplemental education. Some Christian youths are pursuing secular careers through higher education, which is having a negative impact on their spirituality.

  *** Watchtower 1983 January 15 p.22 Exposing the Devil's Subtle Designs ***

  Avoid Independent Thinking

  20 From the very outset of his rebellion Satan called into question God's way of doing things. He promoted independent thinking.

  Do you see above how the Watchtower has intellectually castrated you?

  You have been taken advantage of a moneymaking corporation cloaked under religion for tax benefits. If you want some of its financial reports just let me know. How about their membership to the United Nation?s D.P.I.? How did you feel that the Watchtower spent about 10 years in bed with the "Great Harlot"?

  Do you feel proud that the WT shelters pedophiles because they did not perform their hideous attacks before an audience of two witnesses?

  How do you feel the WT owned ?for 16 years- about 50% stocks on three companies producing engines solely for the U.S. Navy, mounted and used in combat?

  Regarding the environment, Did you know the WT trades on crude oil? Did you know the WT has been fined $50,000 for polluting the water by of one of their shale mines?

  Like the fact that the WT bought and makes two multi-engine airplanes available to GB members to go visit fishing lodges in Alaska? Do you see below how they infuse fear in you?

  Avoid Independent Thinking

  22 This fact cannot be overemphasized: We are in a war with superhuman foes, and we constantly need to be aware of this. Satan and his demons are real; they are not mere figments of the imagination.

  *** Watchtower November 1 1938 p. 324 ***

  [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

  There is no reasonable or scriptural injunction to bring children into the world before Armageddon, where we are now.

  No reasonable "injunction"? Try: LOVE.

  Buddy, if anything, hang around for some veil-lifting. If you have the truth, you have nothing to fear.

  Cheers,

  Gerry
• 

  avishai

  I understand all religions have their faults

  If that's the case, what's the difference betweem JW and another?