Predestination and Dubs

by Farkel 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    Farkel

    Your right, the JWs have a problem. But I think Socrates has a problem.

    There was no "dilemma", by the way. Either "right" comes from God, or God is subject to an outside thing called "right". If the latter is true, God is not omipotent. If the former is true, God is arbitary and
    capricious. This is the sum total argument that Socrates stated with that young buck as related in Plato's Dialogues.
    If the former is true, how do you know God is arbitrary and
    capricious? Was Socrates smart enough to make that judgment? Could Socrates see and understand from Gods' prospective? At the end of time we may all agree that God was brilliant, holy, and just. At best he is going to have to wait till the end of time to make that judgment. D Dog
  • cyber-sista
    cyber-sista

    I always wondered about this subject and could never make the pieces fit in my mind.

    Now let's think, as a JW we didn't believe in predestination, but we need to go out door to door in search of right hearted people who Jehovah is directing us to find. Are they then predestined for being a JW?. Or the end of the system of things--everyone who is not a JW is predestined to die as that is their destiny. It was very confusing...

  • bigboi
    bigboi
    Barbour at least was smarter than Russell: he saw the "ransom" theory for the bullshit that it was and is.

    Farkel,

    How and why was the ransom doctrine bullshit. Inquiring minds wanna know.

  • Larry
    Larry

    Wow - I never heard of this:

    By the way, when Russell departed from Barbour, he stole his entire mailing list and used it for his own new magazine and put Barbour out of business. Russell was the first Watchtower scumbag. Barbour was financially weak and Russell wasn't. He USED Barbour and got control of Barbour's main asset. This is how the Watchtower religion took a foot hold.

    Very interesting, I wonder if that is in the Insight book :) Seriously, Farkel, where can I find that info? Or is it predestined that I don't know :)LL :)

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    Larry,

    I can get it for you, but it will involve me contacting someone who has the source for that information. It will take a little time.

    Farkel

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    bigboi,

    Most Christian religions believe that Jesus died for our sins or that he took all of our sins upon himself. Although I happen to think that notion is also wacky, I don't think it is nearly as wacky as the ransom doctrine.

    The Bible never said Adam and Eve were perfect, and never said they would live forever if they obeyed God, so those who believe that it took a perfect man to "buy back" what Adam and Eve lost can't make there case on the evidence.

    Furthermore, in the real world what happens when a ransom is paid? The hostage is almost immediatley returned! It's 2,000 years after this "ransom" was paid and the billions of people who have lived and died and those living today are still hostages. Makes no sense.

    For it to be a genuine ransom, when Jesus died we should have been returned to a perfect condition, and perhaps made to pass a test similar to the one Adam and Eve had to pass. But no! We still get to keep our diseases, faminies, criminals and we have to make all the mistakes people who perfect would not make. But besides all this, we have to face tests and challenges a thousand times harder than those faced by the first couple, both now and at the end of the 1,000 year reign.

    So, to me at least, that "ransom" made by Jesus was meaningless.

    Finally, if one of your children's friends committed a terrible crime, would you kill your own innocent child as restitution for that sin? NO! It's stupid, and unbelievably cruel to even consider such a thing.

    But that's exactly what Bible God did.

    Farkel

  • bigboi
    bigboi

    Thanks for the reply Farkel.

    The Bible is indeed very different when you look at exactly what's written without all the extra assumptions.

  • talesin
  • Larry
    Larry

    Damn, that was an excellent reply re: the ranson. I haven't read or thought about that subject in years. To bad being a Christian is based on faith and not of facts.

    LL :)

    PS - Take your time about getting that info., but when you do get it please post it on the board.

  • GenericMan
    GenericMan

    Here's a link to an article dealing with the issue of omnipotence:

    plato.stanford.edu/entries/omnipotence/

    from the Stanford Encyclopedia, by Joshua Hoffman and Gary Rosenkrantz.

    I hope this helps.

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