Excellent Chronology website

by City Fan 14 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • JCanon
    JCanon

    Hi Deleted...you have the wrong understanding of the WTS position on this dating, allow me to explain?'

    I thought slide 27 of the Feat of Clay piece to be particularly interesting. In short, based on astronimical measurements there's a difference referred to in Sky Software of some 9 minutes back in 567 BCE. So much for the WTS stance that archeological information being inaccruate (in defence of 607 vs 587as the fall of Jerusalem). If measurements in the same era are off just 9 minutes, any claims to substantial inaccuracies (eg 20 years) is highly bogus.

    The WTS does not claim the scientific information in the text is wrong, only the reference to -567 being accurate as far as year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar. That's because the VAT4956 was not a text that originated during this period but a couple hundred years later during the Seleucid Period. In other words, anybody after the fact can take some clay tablets from 567BCE with astronomical observations and create a new clay tablet for that year and then put any king's year they want on the text. That's why any post-dated astronomical texts can't be used to preempt anything because they are so easily faked. But it's still effective to parade these texts around since most people, like yourself, focus on the accuracy of the astronomical information and thus think that's the end of it. It's not. Not in this case.

    The Process of Revisionism of Astronomical Data: This is just a brief synopsis of what one is up against when a new text is created 200 years after the fact. Say you wanted to expand the year of your favorite king. Make him rule 60 years instead of just 20. What can be done, so that the chronology works for ending a 60-year rule the last year of that king is to go back and steal the years from the records of previous kings. This was done all the time for the Assyrian kings. The trick is to have control of the ancient records which the Persians did. The actual process was then quite simple. After deciding where you want to steal the 40 years from, you now come up with new dates for those older kings. Astronomically matched texts for the original years thus must be destroyed. But you can take the information from those original texts and put them into a new clay tablet and just change the year of the king. For instance, if there was a text for -567 BCE that said "Year 1 of Nabonidus" for instance and you needed to adjust that to "Year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar" then you just copy the astronomical information onto a new clay tablet before you destroy that text as evidence of the original chronology and then on the side insert the new kingship assigned to that year, "Nebuchadnezzar, year 37."

    What the WTS simply noted is that since this is a very late document and not an original one from this period, while the astronomical information is accurate for -567BCE, the historical information may have been erroneous. Which is a valid position. Your presumption that the accuracy of the astronomical information confirms the accuracy of the historical information is a misconception, along with the idea that the WTS challenged the astronomical accuracy, which they do not. Hope that helps. JC

  • ellderwho
    ellderwho

    Good work CF,

    right into the favorites!!!

  • City Fan
    City Fan

    JC,

    This site DOES NOT do any calculations. All they do (which is good) is posts the Sachs/Hunger outdated reference. A scan of the actual text.

    What you're looking for is the Adobe pdf document titled "Diary No. -567 an analysis of all intelligible observations (31 pages)".

    It's 31 pages of star charts and discussions of every observation in VAT 4956. There are also some good Adobe pdf files on astronomy basics, which show why your calculation for line 8 is wrong. You need to use an ecliptic grid or RA/declination grid for the terms 'Above', 'Below', 'In front of' and 'behind' to remain consistent.

  • JCanon
    JCanon

    CF...oh great!!

    What you're looking for is the Adobe pdf document titled "Diary No. -567 an analysis of all intelligible observations (31 pages)".

    It's 31 pages of star charts and discussions of every observation in VAT 4956. There are also some good Adobe pdf files on astronomy basics, which show why your calculation for line 8 is wrong. You need to use an ecliptic grid or RA/declination grid for the terms 'Above', 'Below', 'In front of' and 'behind' to remain consistent.

    Thanks! I hadn't realized. Intersesting they think Line 8 is incorrect. Neugebaur already posted that Line 14 is incorrect and Sachs/Hunger had previously acknowedged that Line 3 was always incorrect. This is PRECISELY what I'd love to see. This is a great discovery!! Thanks.

    Now I'm wondering if they went a step further to presume that the VAT4956 being an earlier text is set to a different lunar cycle than the later texts such as the SK400 and all the others from the Seleucid Era?

    Also, I'm wondering what they do with Line 18? Do they just say, "no the Moon was not there" but did they replace it with Venus? Further, are they claiming that the "Bright Star Behind the Lion's Foot" (MUL KUR sa TIL GIR UR-A) (Lines 14 and 18) is the same as "Rear Foot of the Lion" (GIR ar sa UR-A)? They are two different stars! Neugebaur never noticed that Sachs/Hunger were treating it that way and Sachs/Hunger apparently never corrected him. But since they used a star assignment in Line 3 "beta-Virginis" and the actual transliteration in Lines 14 and 18 "bright star behind the Lion's Foot" it invites a non-comparison instead of transliterating booth: "Rear foot of the lion" vs "Bright star behind the Lion's Foot" vs "beta-Virginis" vs "eta-Virginis." But since they deceptively put "the moon" instead of Venus in Line 18, this may be part of the deception that they were hoping for. It's a complicated maze with several possibilities that distracts from finding the real conflict and misapplication here.

    Thus it will be interesting if the researchers consider Line 3's "Rear Foot of the Lion" as beta-Virginis or sigma-Leonis. The VAT4956 requires Line 3's Rear Foot of the Lion to be "sigma-Leonis" not beta-Vrignis as Sachs/Hunger says. Obviously, without the correct star reference means more errors. So I will follow this.

    Thanks, again, will check out!

    JC

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    I second this website for 607 vs 587 research. I think it's good to send to an active JW since it has nothing "apostate".

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