HELP! How do you answer the Elders without incriminating yourself?

by stichione 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Flash
    Flash
    "Have you been doing research in order to discredit the Society as God's organization?"

    Now that's a new one, I thought I heard them all! There must be a growing problem with people thinking and questioning!!! That is GOOD NEWS!

  • 4JWY
    4JWY

    When the elder tried to pin us down in a roundabout way as to what our current belief system is - we replied: " We don't need to have the answers to everything. And, if you ask me a question, I may answer - I don't know OR I DON'T CARE."

    We also decided to throw a question his direction and asked, "what are your ulterior motives for being here?" He denied having any - but here he came to our house just HOURS before the Memorial to interrogate. (using inviting us to the Memorial as the reason for coming by - after 1 1/2 yrs. of no contact.)

    I coulda sworn I grew up reading all about their fights to the highest courts in the lands for freedom of religion.

  • JT
    JT

    SEE it depends on how you view the elders-

    consider you will have either MO Larry or Curly sitting in your living room- we are talking about men who work for Piggly Wiggley, Sam Club, and New Tech Window Washing Service

    I do not mean to dog anyone who works at these places, but merely to illustrate that these are the Cheese and Cracker Men-

    how a person answers such a question depends entirely on what he or she is prepared to deal with - since YOU MUST ASK it is clear you are not ready to deal with any issues-

    so then ask yourself, If you went to the 3 places of employment mentioned above and some guy who works there walked up to you and asked

    1. what is your moms madain name

    2. what is your SSN

    would you tell them?

    same with the cheese and Cracker men- if you are not prepared to deal with issue then why not do to them what they have done to you

    use Theocratic Stragy, IF THEY ARE UNDESERVING OF KNOWING HOW YOU FEEL then don't tell them

    according to the rules of THEIR GAME ONE CAN LIE WITH NO PROBLEM

    I would look them straight in the face and say

    , "My Bro how could you ask me such a question, you have hurt my feeling by questioning my very relationship with my heavenly father that pray to each night, bro jones that really hurt, of course this is god's org, what did you expect me to say,

    now if you don't mind dealing with alot of drama then Moon them- smile

    bottom line each person must decide what they are ready to deal with

    we discussed this issue a while back

    #############

    leaving intact above

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=18993&site=3

    The Following is MY Opinion on the matter-- Like it or hate it
    Life is Still good

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    Every so often we will get a person asking the question should he DA himself or not.

    As many of you know I am a very strong believer in the power of the Net in seeking advice on such an issue. While we have discussed this issue many times and the opinions go the whole length from:

    "No don't do it" to "Yes do it and get some closure", it has been agreed on that it is indeed a personal matter based on many things

    In this thread we discussed the 2 major issues that a person needs to consider:

    1. How

    2. Timing

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=5574&site=3#66584

    Now as for me at this point in my life I would not waste the Stamp, Paper or Time to write a DA letter, since I know it is the Brain Child of the Legal Dept to protect themselves-

    So for me I would not give them the Legal Document in THIER hand that "Could" prevent me from at a Future time SUING them SUCCESSFULLY-

    I mean-- think about- it was just a few years ago a Black woman sue the KKK and end up with all their property-

    who would have thought 25 yrs ago that a black woman would be able to sue the KKK and end up with their "Club House"

    So for me I wouldn't DA myself--------- "BUT, BUT"

    IF I were to DA myself I would do it right!!!!!!!!!!

    I often see here on the net some excellent DA letters, but the problem is they are being sent and mailed off to:

    MO, LARRY AND CURLY (AKA) Congregation Service Committee, who will start to read about 3 lines-- realize it is a DA letter-- and just look for the one line that says "I no longer want to be known as a JW"-

    Now what makes this phrase in quotes so funny is that it is exactly what the wt has stated they want you to put in your letter

    and most folks willingly comply-

    I see that phrase --"I no longer want to be known as a JW"-so many times in DA letters that folks write --

    one would think that the LegaL Dept sent it out in "Form" format to all the congregations and all you need to do is ask the SEC could you have DA form #3df2

    Realizing that if I did send in a DA I?m going to be Dogggggggggggggged anyway and cut off from anyone who knows me

    --then I figure I might as well go out with a Blast and let the last laugh be on them.

    I would sit down and write my letter and point out the reasons why- flip-flops, dates, and alternative service. Blood., the UN "THANG" ETC.

    But I would not send it to MO, LARRY AND CURLY-- O NO that would make it too easy for WT.

    I would make the WT work for this damn DA- smile . I would send it straight to the Legal Dept addressed to Carolyn Wah, or Phillip Brumley or Big William Bell-

    I would also CC: copies to all the Local Religious Editors of papers here in DC

    Wash Post , Wash Times and esp the small local community papers that are just looking for stuff to fill up the void in those papers?SMILE?

    I would also include TO THE SOCIETY ONLY that nice little "LEGAL LETTER" I have seen posted on this site by someone- where it basically says:

    "Don't FU%K with Me- It will cost you!!!!!!!!!!

    At that point they will shoot a copy over to the Service Dept and then they will start to look up my ZIP code ALL THE WHILE SAYING :

    "Where in the He!! does that damn JT live"

    Then they will see Wash, DC and over it goes to the bro on the service desk who handles this area.

    Then he may recognize who I am ?- IF NOT--- HE WILL look into the Database to see if I was ever appointed and then "HOLY SH!T I know JT" we used to work in the bindery together SMILE

    Since they have no idea where I have moved to they will then start with the CO's and City Overseer-

    letters will be drafted in accord with legals instructions to: "Find his Black A$$" AKA "BA"

    Hey look I'm gonna get dogged anyway might as well have some fun while I'm at it

    Then UNBEKNOWN to the local elders they get this letter from Patterson asking them to do follow-up along with with copies to the COs in this area,

    but they ain't got no ADDRESS so they hit the Internet YAHOO people search hunting down my "BA"

    In the mean time a couple of Local papers "The Penny Pincher" and the "Thrifty Nickel" have carried a story:

    "Black JW Man & Woman Quits church after Flip Flops"

    they print all the flip-flops -give ALL REFERENCES found in wt publications.

    Local JW begin to exp. a harder time in FIELD SERVICE trying to deny what the Society has IN PRINT

    Local Bro are waiting for elders to announce that JT and Lady "C" have been DA, but none comes forth due to possible lawsuit and more bad press

    So the JW "Rumor Mill" goes into High Gear, esp when they see that E320 Benz that "Lady C" is driving.
    They say such things as"

    "JT is selling Drugs, Pimping HOs and cheating the IRS"

    O HOW I JUST LOVE IT----------

    Yes my friends if you are going to DA yourself then in my opinion and my opinion ONLY:

    DO THE DAMN THANG RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    And have some fun

    Now this in my view is CLOSURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Just my 2

    James

  • JT
    JT

    One of the most painful things I continue to see here on this forum as well as all the others is that many who want to leave wt simply don't know how to leave and remain "Intact" as it were.

    I recall talking with jw who "Formally Disassociated themselves back in the 70?s and it was not till the 90?s and the net did they finally feel free

    or many who ?jump UP? and write a letter off to Mo Larry and Curly (CONGREGATION SERVICE COMMITTEE)

    While I feel there is absolutely nothing wrong with writing a letter for many it is a matter of

    1. Poor timing and
    2. not being prepared for what will follow

    When I read of folks who wrote letters feeling bad or feeling that must ?meet? with the elders ? to me that means they were not ready AT THAT TIME.

    The net is really the answer for all lurkers and those who are thinking about leaving ? why not Learn how to leave WT at least somewhat ?Intact?

    Before writing a letter be sure to get the Pros and Cons of writing a letter- for me personally I wouldn?t waste the paper or stamp- but I fully understand for those who do ? there is no right or wrong ? should I send one or not

    But more of a

    1. When should I do this and
    2. How-

    I highly recommend throwing it out here in the forum for suggestions- the reason why is simple

    The avg. jw has so little understanding of the WT Corporate Procedures when it comes to how they deal with folks

    Being Former ?Society Man? the rules and policies swallow up the avg. person

    I recall seeing persons who are leaving spend weeks Xeroxing 40=50 pages of copies of wt history to ?Let the bro. know why?

    They don?t give a RATS A$$ and once a person comes to understand that then they know how to proceed

    Much like explaining Gravity to a 6 month old baby it means absolutely nothing-

    Also understanding that the avg. Joe blow elder is as much a victim as we were

    What I have seen here on the net is how some of the most condemning folks ( she got low hours can?t be too spiritual)

    ( she can pioneer her hubby make s enough money) etc myself INCLUDED ? once we learn the truth about the truth

    we feel so bad about how we treated others when we were in the Org-

    I look back at some of the judicial cases that we handled and being a Society Man I went by the BOOK?

    VERY LITTLE feeling for the ?Individual person? GOT TO KEEP THE ORG CLEAN-

    SO FOR me know I only hope that all the folks I dealt with in an unloving way can forgive me for it was done out of ignorance and being blinded.

    So for any who want to get out--------- please and I beg of you feel free to ask here on the forum what things you need to consider so when you decided to make your move ? you can LEAVE INTACT

    JAMES

    "I'd rather have questions I can't answer than questions I can't ask (or answers I can't question)."

  • HappyDad
    HappyDad

    JT,

    SO FOR me know I only hope that all the folks I dealt with in an unloving way can forgive me for it was done out of ignorance and being blinded.

    Thanks for putting this in your post. I also wish to apologize to everyone I delt with in an unloving manner. It's funny but pathetic when I think of how it was drummed into us elders that what they had us doing was the "loving" thing to do. "Ve must keep das congregation clean!" HIEL!!!

    Bill

  • gold_morning
    gold_morning

    Stich,

    I think there comes a time, at everyones own individual pace, where we make choices. Where our conscience does the job it was ment to do. I know many here have reasons to do the fade.. or avoid disfellowhiping to save family members from hurt. I also know many aviod breaking away because of a deep fear ingrained in us that says..."What if it is the truth"

    Once that fear is gone....of it being the "truth" the freedom of leaving comes naturally.

    I remember them wanting me to write a letter of dissasociation and I told them that I believed in God and I would not denouce him. If they had to disfellowhip me, then the burden was on them, but I in no way would write a letter. They called and called on my house. It was summer time and the doors were usually open. They would knock and I would not answer. Then they would go to the back of the house and pound on the back door. As if that was not enough.... they would call my name thru the windows.

    At the time, I was in my early 30's and yet like a scared child I hid, sitting on the floor in my bedroom hiding and waiting for them to give up and leave. This went on for a while. I never even answerd my phone in fear of it being them. Finally they did make their decision and disfellowshiped me one Thursday evening. I knew it had happend as I was in a Friendly's resturant. In walked some relatives and lifelong friends. They walked right past me with eyes focused straigt ahead. I knew that was the night Jehovah had left me forever. AT THEIR INTERPRETATION!!

    Now I know that God never left me as they "blindly" deceived me to believe. Rather, because of them, I left HIM.

    I don't mean to get to personal about things that hurt you inside..... but it would be good for you to find out why you don't want to leave, and what you do and do not believe. What keeps you there. Is it their doctrin.... fear of the unknown......the guilt that comes from shunning.... or knowing you will never be able to find a replacement for that "true religioin".

    Know that I hear you!!! I recall all of the very real feelings you have right now. Every situatioin is so very different. One thing I do know, is that you must be true to yourself.

    You have all my love and thoughts thru this struggle.

    agape love, Gold_morning.

    if you need to talk you can reach me at [email protected]

  • stichione
    stichione

    Thanks to every one who posted on this thread. I read some wonderful thoughs which encouraged me and allowed me to focus on some important points.

  • Flash
    Flash
    JT,
    SO FOR me know I only hope that all the folks I dealt with in an unloving way can forgive me for it was done out of ignorance and being blinded.

    Thanks for putting this in your post. I also wish to apologize to everyone I delt with in an unloving manner. It's funny but pathetic when I think of how it was drummed into us elders that what they had us doing was the "loving" thing to do. "Ve must keep das congregation clean!" HIEL!!!

    Bill

    There are other ex-Elders here also (not me). It's nice to know Elders are not beyond hope. I used to think they were the lost of the lost.

  • avengers
    avengers

    Danny sez:"$uing is better than stewing"

    I imagine that's the only language they understand. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

    The question is how to go about it. The WT makes people's mind soft as jelly, so that reasoning is beyond all question.

    Any ideas?

  • willyloman
    willyloman
    I knew it had happend as I was in a Friendly's resturant. In walked some relatives and lifelong friends. They walked right past me with eyes focused straigt ahead.

    Just had to laugh at the irony... in a restaurant called "Friendly's," they weren't...

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